Real Mom Talk: Happy Mother's Day!

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Hey, everyone.
Welcome back to our podcast.

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I'm Mel.
And this is Claire.

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And together we are the salty
hoes.

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Well, happy May everyone.
It's a beautiful month.

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One of my favorite months
actually.

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And we are celebrating a special
holiday in the United States, at

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least.
I don't actually know how

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widespread this actual day is
internationally, Claire.

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Like I I think that Mother's Day
is celebrated around the world,

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but I don't know if it's the
same day actually.

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It's in March.
Oh, it's in March.

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Typically in other places.
So I think Merka is the stand

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alone in May.
Oh interesting, UK.

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Ireland, I think Australia,
other places it's in, it's in

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March.
OK, well, I'm glad I asked and

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now I'm curious about the
history, but we're not going to

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dive into it right now because I
know nothing about that.

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Well, weirdly, Father's Day is
to see him.

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In June.
Uh huh.

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Oh well, that is interesting,
but just.

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Mother's Day is.
Different.

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OK, well, yeah, strange.
Interesting.

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If we're still recording next
year, we might have to do a

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little research and figure that
out.

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Yeah.
Yeah.

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All right.
So happy Mother's Day, everyone.

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Yeah.
And I guess before we get

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started, we should just say we
realize that not everybody out

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there is a mother.
Yeah.

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And that's that's all good.
That's fantastic.

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Yeah.
And we know that, you know, for

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some people, this might be a
painful holiday.

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Maybe this is a holiday for, you
know, that's hard for people

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that potentially wanted to have
children and weren't able to for

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whatever reason.
Yeah, we understand that.

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And you have all of our love and
care and sympathy.

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A. 100% cause it can be a very
loaded holiday for those reasons

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or if you've lost your mom or if
you have a fractured

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relationship with your mom or
yeah, you, you wanted babies,

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babies never happened.
And yeah, so yeah, all the love

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to everybody.
Yeah, there could be many

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reasons.
Do you?

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When you were attending church
as a child in Ireland, did they

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do anything in the Mormon church
to celebrate Mother's Day?

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Oh yeah, oh, oh, so many
stories.

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Yes, I had erased that for my
brain.

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It was usually like a wee like
flower.

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I'll say American flower.
Well, flowers, Irish way flower,

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like a little buttonhole.
Oh yeah, yeah, OK.

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That's what did they do it in in
America?

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So I'm not sure that anything
was standardized right in the

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ward that I grew up in.
I remember members of probably

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the young men, if I'm recalling
correctly, taking a minute in

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sacrament meeting.
So that's the big meeting with

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the whole congregation and kind
of marching around with potted

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plants, which they delivered to
all the people who were mothers,

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not to all the women, just to
the moms.

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So if you maybe had some
fertility challenges, that was

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probably very difficult.
I didn't think about that when I

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was a kid, but now I'm just
like, oh boy, that would have

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been really rough.
That would be horrific.

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And that's why I actually
giggled initially because on

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Father's Day the dads got
chocolate and I was told that I

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couldn't have one because my dad
wasn't a member.

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Oh, he wasn't a real dad,
Claire.

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He.
Wasn't a real dad, he was a

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heathen.
Not a not a priesthood holder.

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Nope.
Heathen father, Terrible,

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terrible human.
Which, you know, couldn't be

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further from the truth.
I mean, he's.

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I mean.
He sounds like an absolutely

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lovely human.
He's a.

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Wee gem, but like it just it was
a member of the bishopric told

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me that and they were saying it
like with all seriousness.

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Wow.
Yeah, So that exclusionary part,

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it's like it's like exclusionary
inception, right?

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Because like, you know, the
Mormons don't like to mingle

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with the non Mormons.
But even within that, if you're

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not meeting criteria right,
you're a woman, but you're not a

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mother.
You don't get a plant.

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No plant for you, bitch.
Like.

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It's just like, huh, Yeah, like
you say, the easiest thing to do

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would just be to give one to all
the adult women.

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Yeah, period.
Yeah.

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It's like, oh, wait, no, you've
had two miscarriages.

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You don't get one.
Yeah, like, let me RIP that

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potted plant away from you.
I mean, that's literally, you

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know.
What I mean, yeah, that's right.

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You don't get to have babies and
also you don't get to have this

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small pot potted plant.
You don't need, you don't get to

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clutch it today to virtue signal
to everybody that you bore

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offspring.
Oh boy, that's pretty horrible.

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I mean, we're on earthing stuff.
Yeah, right.

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Right out of the gate.
That's really, really shitty.

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I mean, we're laughing about it,
but like, that would be

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incredibly painful.
And I'm sure it was probably

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really painful to you to hear
that your dad didn't really

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count because he wasn't a
member.

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Yeah, that, that wasn't fun,
although I can remember it like,

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it like sparked something in me
and I remember it probably was

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considered deeply disrespectful.
But I my response was, Oh yeah,

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you are not half the man my dad
is.

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Did you say that?
Oh my God, I love that.

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Claire, I just, I was like, I'm
very protective over my people,

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friends, family, whatever.
And I just, like, had feelings I

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don't think I'd felt before
where it's like, how dare you?

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And with my dad's job and stuff,
I would meet people in the world

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outside of church all the time.
And people would always say, are

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you young Adams?
And I'd say, yeah.

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And they'd say, your dad's a
great man.

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And that's what I was used to
hearing about my dad.

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Not that he couldn't have a bar
of chocolate.

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Sorry.
We're going dad talk here.

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It's Mother's Day.
I'm talking about men.

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We're not going to do dad talk.
All right.

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Well, we can do a Father's Day
episode.

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We're.
Rejecting the patriarchy of the

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Mormon.
We are doing that.

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And I just want to say about my
lovely Claire, if you have not

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met Claire, you are very
protective of your people.

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And you're also one of those
people who is just like the

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sweetest, kindest, like ray of
human sunshine until there's an

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injustice.
And then you're like, fuck no,

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that not on my watch.
That, that is very sweet of you.

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I'll take that.
I I like to think it's part of

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being Irish.
Yeah, that's very fair.

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The women are known as she
wolves, so you don't come for

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our people.
I would never come for your

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people.
I.

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Will end you.
But you are my people, so you're

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good.
I love that.

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I'm I'm in the inner circle.
Yes, you are protected by the

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sheep.
Yeah, I have the platinum plan

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with the Claire friendships.
So yes, you do.

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Lucky me.
So good.

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OK, so Mother's Day.
Mother's Day.

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So I have one child, you have
three beautiful babies.

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I have three lovely babies,
yeah.

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Yeah, one of whom is currently
living at home, right?

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And two are spread their little
wings and at least temporarily

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have flown flown away.
They they have flown away.

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Yeah, we're kind of at different
stages of motherhood because we

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are.
You've got you're one baby.

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Yep, who's a wee teen?
He is.

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He's in high school.
Yeah.

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I mean, and honestly, it's
magical.

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I've probably said this before,
but everyone warns you about the

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teenage years.
And like my child, has been

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nothing but an absolute delay
from the moment he was born till

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the current day.
Yeah, You're like, OK, Yeah.

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When's it gonna hit?
I know.

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I mean, at this point, I think
probably never.

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Yeah, you.
Know, and you know, I think

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that's that's just something
there's a lot of stories or

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myths out there in terms of how
things should be.

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And I'm not suggesting for one
minute that raising a child is

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easy, because it's not.
It's not for the faint of heart,

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but maybe not for the reasons
we're told, you know, And yeah,

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your, your child is a delightful
human, always has been.

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Like, you know, I've, I don't
know how long I've known your

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child for I have no concept of
time, but.

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But for quite some time.
That's fair.

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Many years, yes.
Such a good human and I always

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enjoy your child's ability to
conversate.

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With adults.
Thank you.

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So cute.
He's had a lot of practice, yes,

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but he's.
So cute and so smart and just a

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sweetheart.
He's great.

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He's a good kid.
Yeah, and it's very funny.

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Like his personality today is
the same as his personality when

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he was a baby.
It's really, really funny to

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see.
I would love to talk about that

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because that's a.
Thing, right?

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Oh yeah, that's a big thing.
Like they're born and you get a

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sense of, you know, even as a
little baby you get a sense of

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like, OK, I am going to probably
cry many times since.

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I know, me too friends, we might
have to pause this at times, so

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do bear with us.
Or we might just ugly cry and

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you'll get the all the bare
bones but like.

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We'll try to keep the mouth
noises to a minimum, but.

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The like snorty snot you could
see but.

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You know.
It just it's yeah, like you see

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this little baby, but you get
like a sense of of who they are.

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And as you say, it kind of it's
like this genetic set point.

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I don't know what you would call
it of for sure.

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Of them, yes.
And it's incredible.

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It really is.
It really confuses me that

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psychologists at one point were
like, Oh yeah, like a baby is a

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blank slate.
Or like maybe that was some

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Enlightenment philosophers as
well.

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It's been a while since I took
Euro history or philosophy, but

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I feel like that was a thing.
Right?

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Yeah, that this child is a blank
slate and like that could not be

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further from the truth.
And I guess these people almost

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have been men who were not, you
know, intimately acquainted with

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small babies because I think all
of us that are moms know they

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come out with a very distinct
personality.

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Yep.
They.

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Certainly do an that surprised
me when I had my second and

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third child because I was like,
wait, it's different.

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Like I, I thought the same
tricks would work.

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You know, I'm like, all three
had different sleep habits.

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All three had different food
habits.

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All three had different little
personalities, even even in the

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womb.
I'm going to argue because I I'm

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going to argue.
I'm going to argue that point in

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terms of like I always joke with
my youngest, I'm like, you were

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a wee bugger because she stayed
still all day long.

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Oh, that's frightening.
And every day I was like, Oh my

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God, there's something wrong
with the baby.

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And like, are they still alive
in there?

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I know by 10:30 every night she
would just, it was like a little

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flick.
Oh my goodness.

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She's like, hey, I'm still here.
It's all fine.

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And I'd be like every night, you
know, and like, pause and

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relief.
OK.

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OK.
And I was like, I swear you were

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tormenting me.
You were just like, are you

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worried?
Are you worried?

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But yeah, she's, she's the
cutest, loveliest human.

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But it's just funny.
Like it's it's just all they

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come with their RE personality.
Oh absolutely.

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I didn't think about in utero.
That's so funny.

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I've only been pregnant one time
so that did not occur to me.

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Yeah, it's like, huh, How would
they all manifest?

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My son, my middle child, he was
ginormous.

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00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:42,400
He was 9 Pines, 40 goodness.
And but like built like a brick

228
00:11:42,440 --> 00:11:46,040
out house.
Like really like a girthy kid.

229
00:11:46,440 --> 00:11:50,200
Super good looking baby, jet
black spiky hair.

230
00:11:50,840 --> 00:11:55,720
He has this cute little moon
moon shape in his face that he

231
00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,320
was just a marvel to medicine
when he was born for a couple of

232
00:11:59,320 --> 00:12:03,480
reasons, but he still has just
this like perfect present moon

233
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,760
in his cheek.
Amazing, and no doctor has ever

234
00:12:07,120 --> 00:12:09,840
discovered why.
Is there something in Irish

235
00:12:09,840 --> 00:12:11,360
mythology that could explain
this?

236
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:13,520
Claire.
When he was a little boy, I told

237
00:12:13,520 --> 00:12:17,840
him it's because he was destined
to be a spaceman and he liked

238
00:12:17,840 --> 00:12:18,760
that as a kid.
That's.

239
00:12:18,920 --> 00:12:20,720
So.
Cute because it's just like a

240
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:26,640
perfect little little moon.
But yeah, he was crazy in the

241
00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:28,920
womb.
Like my whole belly would just.

242
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:31,720
Oh my God, I bet.
I was, I was doing a masters

243
00:12:31,720 --> 00:12:34,000
when I was pregnant with him and
I'd sit in class and my whole

244
00:12:34,000 --> 00:12:35,320
belly would.
Just like.

245
00:12:36,080 --> 00:12:39,280
Jump from side to side and yeah,
the youngest was kind of in

246
00:12:39,280 --> 00:12:40,840
between.
Oh, that's so funny.

247
00:12:40,880 --> 00:12:42,920
How was your pregnancy with your
wee child?

248
00:12:43,120 --> 00:12:45,440
I mean, it was pretty
uneventful.

249
00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:51,640
Let's see, I, it was actually an
unplanned pregnancy, but just, I

250
00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:55,040
was really happy.
I mean, I, I don't know, those

251
00:12:55,040 --> 00:12:57,760
hormones are a hell of a drug.
Oh my God, I know.

252
00:12:57,960 --> 00:13:00,320
And maybe I shouldn't have been
like so happy because I was

253
00:13:00,320 --> 00:13:03,080
trying to finish my PhD.
It was literally my last year.

254
00:13:03,520 --> 00:13:06,480
I was trying to like finish all
the experiments in the lab so I

255
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:07,760
could like get done and write
up.

256
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:09,160
And it had already been a long
time.

257
00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,920
And then I found out I was
pregnant and it was really

258
00:13:13,920 --> 00:13:17,400
exciting, but also like, oh
shit, like how am I going to get

259
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:20,160
all this done?
And spoiler alert, I did not get

260
00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:23,000
it all done.
I did finish everything in the

261
00:13:23,000 --> 00:13:26,240
lab, but I still had to write my
entire like dissertation

262
00:13:26,240 --> 00:13:29,560
afterwards while he was an
infant.

263
00:13:29,720 --> 00:13:32,360
Oh my God.
So that was definitely no fun.

264
00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:38,520
Yeah, but I mean, the pregnancy
was pretty, for the most part,

265
00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,600
fairly easy.
I had some morning sickness,

266
00:13:40,600 --> 00:13:42,560
didn't want to eat for the first
trimester.

267
00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:46,200
That's really normal.
Also, like actually one of the

268
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:49,360
early signs I was pregnant was
my body fully rejected alcohol.

269
00:13:49,360 --> 00:13:51,720
It was like, I think we might
have talked about this in a

270
00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,880
different episode, but it was
absolutely something I could not

271
00:13:55,880 --> 00:13:59,600
stand to like smell or be
around, which is great.

272
00:13:59,960 --> 00:14:02,800
That's.
Very like your body is just.

273
00:14:03,040 --> 00:14:05,880
Yeah, it was on point.
It was taking care of the little

274
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:07,360
one.
Yeah, for sure.

275
00:14:08,120 --> 00:14:10,760
And then second trimester I
wanted to eat all the things and

276
00:14:10,760 --> 00:14:13,600
then, you know, third trimester
is like, just get it out of me,

277
00:14:13,600 --> 00:14:16,760
yes type of thing.
You're like, I have to pee.

278
00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:19,160
Every two minutes I can't sleep,
I.

279
00:14:19,280 --> 00:14:20,920
Exactly.
Discomfort.

280
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:24,600
Yeah yes.
Oh, did you feel like.

281
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:27,680
I don't know.
I've always been skeptical.

282
00:14:28,200 --> 00:14:31,400
There's like, I feel like
there's like 2 camps.

283
00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,640
Either you're like, oh, I hate
being pregnant or I love this.

284
00:14:35,640 --> 00:14:40,160
I feel so beautiful and great
and you know, just.

285
00:14:40,480 --> 00:14:43,120
Yeah, I feel like I was
somewhere in between those two

286
00:14:43,120 --> 00:14:44,800
things.
I wasn't like, Oh my God, this

287
00:14:44,800 --> 00:14:47,160
is like a magical experience
necessarily.

288
00:14:47,160 --> 00:14:49,800
But it was interesting.
I mean, I'll say that it was

289
00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,720
like kind of cool once he
started moving and kicking to

290
00:14:52,720 --> 00:14:55,480
like, feel that inside of you.
I actually really, really

291
00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:58,720
enjoyed that part.
It's mental when you think about

292
00:14:58,720 --> 00:15:02,680
it, like there's like a person,
you're growing in there, like

293
00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:04,480
you're not alone.
Exactly.

294
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:07,720
I mean, that kind of hit me with
full force.

295
00:15:07,720 --> 00:15:10,440
You're like, I'm growing a whole
different human, right?

296
00:15:10,440 --> 00:15:15,280
And I don't know, I feel like I
look at some people and maybe I

297
00:15:15,280 --> 00:15:17,480
don't know what goes on in their
head, but I'm like, do they

298
00:15:17,480 --> 00:15:20,800
think that like, this child is
like their pet or their property

299
00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:23,400
or something like that?
I always had a very, very

300
00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,760
distinct sense that this was a
completely unique human being.

301
00:15:26,760 --> 00:15:29,680
And like, my job was just to not
fuck this up.

302
00:15:29,720 --> 00:15:33,640
Yeah, keep, keep them alive in
the early years of the term

303
00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:38,160
food, drinks, like look after
them and yeah.

304
00:15:38,320 --> 00:15:40,320
Oh I was so paranoid about that
stuff.

305
00:15:40,320 --> 00:15:42,160
Right?
Like I had read this article.

306
00:15:42,160 --> 00:15:45,040
I think either right before I
got pregnant or while I was

307
00:15:45,040 --> 00:15:48,840
pregnant about people, parents
who had accidentally left their

308
00:15:48,840 --> 00:15:54,720
child in a hot car and the child
passed away and that was scarred

309
00:15:54,720 --> 00:15:59,200
into my soul, Claire.
I was so paranoid about doing

310
00:15:59,200 --> 00:16:03,240
some stupid shit like that, You
know, I mean, I never did and I

311
00:16:03,240 --> 00:16:05,800
think I never would have.
But like this article was quite

312
00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:07,960
sympathetic, right?
It presented these people as

313
00:16:07,960 --> 00:16:10,840
good parents who were sleep
deprived or they made a mistake

314
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:12,600
or whatever.
And, and I believe that.

315
00:16:12,600 --> 00:16:16,880
So I'm like, oh, shit.
Like, yeah, I was just beyond

316
00:16:16,880 --> 00:16:19,080
paranoid, like at all times of
the day.

317
00:16:19,080 --> 00:16:23,040
Like when he was probably up to
the age of, of five or even

318
00:16:23,040 --> 00:16:27,160
older, like 100 times a day, I'd
be like, where is my child?

319
00:16:27,160 --> 00:16:28,040
Is he safe?
Right.

320
00:16:28,040 --> 00:16:30,160
Like, and then I would, you
know, OK, he's at school, he's

321
00:16:30,160 --> 00:16:32,240
at daycare, he's upstairs
sleeping.

322
00:16:32,640 --> 00:16:36,800
I, I was really hyper vigilant.
Yeah, I counted the stairs in my

323
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,440
house because I was also afraid
of tripping and falling down the

324
00:16:39,440 --> 00:16:40,920
stairs while I was holding my
baby.

325
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:43,720
So that's like I, I think I
still do actually is count

326
00:16:43,720 --> 00:16:45,680
stairs.
So like in my house, I know how

327
00:16:45,680 --> 00:16:49,360
many, but that is from, you
know, having that wee baby.

328
00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:56,080
That is that is so lovely
though, like cuz the way you

329
00:16:56,080 --> 00:17:03,880
kind of just no pun intended
fall into like just you know,

330
00:17:04,040 --> 00:17:06,880
the protection thing like it, it
hits hard.

331
00:17:06,880 --> 00:17:12,640
You mentioned like the hormones
and I think it's, it's so real

332
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:17,160
and not really a thing people
talk about or a way I felt

333
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:22,880
prepared for, for pregnancy or
motherhood where you are hyper

334
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:25,280
vigilant.
You see every potential danger

335
00:17:25,880 --> 00:17:31,120
like you, you know, you're just
kind of looking at the world in

336
00:17:31,120 --> 00:17:35,200
a a totally different way.
And this like protection thing.

337
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:38,560
If if you were like give me a
word to define motherhood, it

338
00:17:38,560 --> 00:17:41,400
would be protection.
Yeah, absolutely.

339
00:17:41,920 --> 00:17:45,880
We had two big dogs at the time,
sweet dogs, You know, one

340
00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:50,680
especially was just just a doll.
I mean, my nieces and nephews,

341
00:17:50,680 --> 00:17:52,960
when they were toddlers, would
grab his ears and pull

342
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:55,080
themselves up to a standing
position, and he would just

343
00:17:55,080 --> 00:17:58,360
stand there and take it.
Still, even though I quote,

344
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:00,960
trusted these dogs, I did not
leave my child alone with the

345
00:18:00,960 --> 00:18:04,920
dogs for a single minute, not
even a second, until he was

346
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:07,160
probably 6 years old.
Yeah.

347
00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,080
Because I'm just like, what
would you do if something did

348
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:12,240
happen?
You know, like the worry and.

349
00:18:12,240 --> 00:18:14,160
Yeah.
And it is, it's difficult

350
00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:19,080
because there's hormones, you're
you are sleep deprived.

351
00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:24,120
There's so much going on.
And I always had a fear, which

352
00:18:24,160 --> 00:18:28,000
happened a couple of times where
I would be nursing and I'd be

353
00:18:28,000 --> 00:18:31,800
like, OK, I'll just, I'll sit
down in this cozy chair or I'll

354
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:35,360
just lay in bed and nurse for a
minute and then I would fall

355
00:18:35,360 --> 00:18:39,200
asleep.
And it used to scare the shit

356
00:18:39,200 --> 00:18:42,680
out of me because I remember
waking up one night and I was

357
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,600
just sitting in like a just
regular armchair and I had my

358
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:50,800
feet up on like a little stool
and I fell asleep and I woke up

359
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:53,680
with my baby off the boob just
laying in my.

360
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,080
Lap and I was like, Oh no, what
happened?

361
00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:03,080
Like and when I fall asleep,
like I am out out, like I am

362
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,360
unconscious.
And that used to scare me so bad

363
00:19:06,360 --> 00:19:08,800
because I'd be like, I'm going
to sit up so I don't fall

364
00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:11,240
asleep.
And no tricks worked because

365
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:12,280
you're so.
Tired.

366
00:19:12,280 --> 00:19:13,640
Yeah.
You're so sleep deprived.

367
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:15,120
Like you're so so.
Tired.

368
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:18,240
Or the times I fell asleep and I
would wake up and they were

369
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,560
like, you know, sandwiched in
between US and the bed.

370
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:23,280
And you're like, you know?
Scary.

371
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:26,520
Yeah, it's scary.
It is scary because yeah.

372
00:19:26,920 --> 00:19:29,040
Was it the same for all three
children?

373
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,440
Pretty much because the
terrorists just seem to

374
00:19:32,440 --> 00:19:34,760
increase.
Oh, well, that I'm sure, but I

375
00:19:34,760 --> 00:19:38,720
just mean like that fear or did
you feel like, oh, I've got this

376
00:19:38,720 --> 00:19:41,200
right, I've already done it
twice or Nope, not at all.

377
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:43,640
No same every time.
I think it was, yeah.

378
00:19:44,040 --> 00:19:48,800
It just stayed pretty persistent
of, you know, this panic.

379
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,200
I remember one time I had taken
them to this little kiddie pool.

380
00:19:52,200 --> 00:19:54,400
We still lived in Ireland and
like it.

381
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:57,200
It was a great place to bring
young kids because it was just

382
00:19:57,200 --> 00:20:02,520
basically like about a foot and
a half deep, but like a large

383
00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:07,280
like pool in like like a, a
center with other pools.

384
00:20:07,520 --> 00:20:10,480
But they could play, you could
sit, you could watch, like if

385
00:20:10,480 --> 00:20:13,840
you had a little BB on the side.
They were happy playing with

386
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:15,920
other kids.
And I remember being there one

387
00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:18,840
day and you know you're on hyper
alert in places like.

388
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:22,400
That with water and a lot of
kids and distractions 100%.

389
00:20:22,400 --> 00:20:25,280
And you're like, you know,
scary, full vigilance.

390
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:28,160
But we'd actually, we were all
dressed, dry dressed and out

391
00:20:28,160 --> 00:20:31,960
going to get food.
And I was like, Oh my God,

392
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,640
where's the baby?
And I was running around

393
00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:36,480
looking.
I was literally holding the

394
00:20:36,480 --> 00:20:42,480
baby.
I was holding the baby, You

395
00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,160
know, like where you walk around
with your phone.

396
00:20:44,160 --> 00:20:45,520
You're like, where the Hell's my
phone?

397
00:20:45,520 --> 00:20:47,400
It's in your hand.
God, I do that all the time.

398
00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:49,640
Or like my car key, I'm like
where is it?

399
00:20:49,640 --> 00:20:52,880
And I'm holding it it's.
Yeah, I did that with my child.

400
00:20:52,880 --> 00:20:55,480
Wow.
And I just like, you know, that

401
00:20:55,480 --> 00:20:58,920
full mom panic, you're like.
Oh yeah, Oh my God.

402
00:20:58,920 --> 00:21:00,000
The worst.
Yeah.

403
00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:02,440
So goodness.
Oh, mothering.

404
00:21:02,920 --> 00:21:07,720
Well, we also had slightly
different mothering experiences

405
00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:12,000
in terms of you had been I of
the Mormon church for quite some

406
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,920
time and I was like Bishop's
wife fully embedded, fully

407
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:20,120
embedded in the cult at the
time.

408
00:21:20,480 --> 00:21:25,600
So did you feel that like
Mormonism informed anything

409
00:21:25,600 --> 00:21:28,880
about your mothering or where
did any of that fit?

410
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:31,920
Or were you like, Oh my God, I'm
so glad I'm not raising my child

411
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,120
in this?
Yeah, that.

412
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:36,360
So I think it did inform my
mother, but in the opposite way.

413
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:39,320
I'm like, oh, here's a whole
bunch of things that I know I

414
00:21:39,320 --> 00:21:40,880
don't want to do.
Yeah.

415
00:21:40,880 --> 00:21:44,640
I don't want to raise my child
in this organization that just

416
00:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,920
sells shame and guilt as a
control tactic.

417
00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:52,800
I mean, I was, I was so grateful
that I had already put that

418
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,480
behind me, that my husband at
the time had never been a

419
00:21:55,480 --> 00:21:57,280
Mormon.
So, like, there was no pressure

420
00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,760
to go back to church, or at
least no pressure that was

421
00:21:59,760 --> 00:22:00,520
meaningful.
Right.

422
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,440
I'm, you know, my parents
certainly would wanted that.

423
00:22:03,440 --> 00:22:06,280
They they pushed a little bit
for a baby blessing, but that

424
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:08,680
was an absolute no.
Yeah.

425
00:22:08,800 --> 00:22:12,440
You're like, yeah, no, I don't
want his name ever.

426
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,480
Like, you know, in the records
of that organization.

427
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,440
I mean, who knows if a relative
submitted it, but certainly, you

428
00:22:18,440 --> 00:22:21,440
know, he was never blessed.
So he's not an official member

429
00:22:21,680 --> 00:22:27,600
and never was, which is great.
But yeah, just like it felt like

430
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,720
a gift, honestly, to not have to
deal with that, you know, again,

431
00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:35,960
the guilt and the shame, this
feeling of like, brainwashing

432
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:39,320
these little babies, right?
And making them feel bad about

433
00:22:39,320 --> 00:22:42,400
themselves from a really young
age, because I certainly did.

434
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:47,840
That was my early primary
experience was just, you know,

435
00:22:47,840 --> 00:22:51,760
being made to feel awful about
myself every single week at

436
00:22:51,760 --> 00:22:56,000
church for three hours so.
That's heartbreaking for a child

437
00:22:56,400 --> 00:22:59,600
to have a sense of that.
Like, part of childhood is meant

438
00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:01,400
to be the free, you know?
You're free.

439
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:07,200
You're just like a little, you
know, every little wispy person

440
00:23:07,360 --> 00:23:09,040
running barefoot in the grass,
hopefully.

441
00:23:09,040 --> 00:23:11,080
And not like, Oh my God, am I
good enough?

442
00:23:11,080 --> 00:23:12,680
Does Jesus love me?
Am I?

443
00:23:12,680 --> 00:23:14,640
Bad, right?
Did I have a bad thought?

444
00:23:14,640 --> 00:23:16,360
Now Jesus hates me.
Right?

445
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:17,600
Like this kind of thing.
Yeah.

446
00:23:18,120 --> 00:23:19,200
Yeah.
So what a gift.

447
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,440
And like, now that my son is a
little older and he knows

448
00:23:21,440 --> 00:23:23,760
something about, you know, that
organization.

449
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:25,280
He knows quite a bit, actually.
Yeah.

450
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:28,680
Randomly sometimes he'll just
turn to me and be like, hey,

451
00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:30,400
thanks for not raising me
religious.

452
00:23:30,400 --> 00:23:33,480
And I'm like, you got it, buddy.
You are so welcome.

453
00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,320
Happy to oblige.
Yeah.

454
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:38,320
Well, and then also we, I don't
want to belabor this because

455
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,600
we've talked about it before.
But, you know, obviously we both

456
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,640
had feelings about the Mormon
church's treatment of, you know,

457
00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:51,720
people that are LGBTQ.
That was a big deal for for me.

458
00:23:51,920 --> 00:23:55,440
And, you know, you're holding
this little baby and you're

459
00:23:55,440 --> 00:23:56,920
like, well, what?
I mean, what if they're gay?

460
00:23:56,920 --> 00:23:59,840
Yeah.
You know, like I could never do

461
00:23:59,840 --> 00:24:00,960
that to my child.
I.

462
00:24:01,200 --> 00:24:06,760
Know just on so many levels.
Yeah, but what about you?

463
00:24:06,800 --> 00:24:09,360
What was it like raising little
babies in the church?

464
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:11,680
Because you you started younger
than I did.

465
00:24:12,480 --> 00:24:14,760
How old were you when you had
your wee baby child?

466
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:19,240
I was in my early 30s, so I was
33 I think, when he was born.

467
00:24:20,000 --> 00:24:23,160
I was pregnant for the first
time at 23.

468
00:24:23,480 --> 00:24:26,400
Oh boy, so you were a full
decade younger than me when you

469
00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,520
had your first.
That's a different experience.

470
00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,760
It's, you know, I, I've
mentioned this before, but I

471
00:24:32,920 --> 00:24:37,920
jokingly will, you know,
apologize to my children on a

472
00:24:37,920 --> 00:24:42,360
regular basis and be like, like
I, I was a child myself really,

473
00:24:42,360 --> 00:24:44,480
and I'm sorry.
No stop.

474
00:24:44,480 --> 00:24:49,000
You are clearly the best mother
and I see your kids interact

475
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,560
with you and I can see how much
they adore you like you've

476
00:24:51,560 --> 00:24:53,520
clearly just done a a bang up
job.

477
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,440
Well, thank you.
I'm back at you.

478
00:24:55,480 --> 00:25:02,080
But I mean, you know, I I made
my mistakes and as a mother and

479
00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:08,840
you know, I'm sure being young,
definitely at all stages really

480
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,480
of their development, so
probably impacted my approach.

481
00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:15,480
Maybe sometimes for, for the
good, right, You know, and, and,

482
00:25:15,640 --> 00:25:17,880
and definitely sometimes for the
not so good.

483
00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:23,400
But it's yeah, it.
I actually miscarried before my

484
00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:25,400
first baby.
Oh, I'm so sorry, I didn't know

485
00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:26,800
that.
Oh, you're so sweet.

486
00:25:26,800 --> 00:25:28,240
Thank you.
I mean, it's so common.

487
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:32,920
It's extremely common.
So common and you know, for a

488
00:25:32,920 --> 00:25:37,280
lot of people just multiple, you
know, times.

489
00:25:37,280 --> 00:25:41,480
And I mean, that's whole podcast
episode in itself, the way kind

490
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:44,520
of the world deals with that and
kind of writes it off as no big

491
00:25:44,520 --> 00:25:47,800
deal and you know.
Yeah, it's, it's really

492
00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:50,880
heartbreaking when people
minimize that because I, I mean,

493
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:53,120
I haven't been through it, but I
can't really imagine like the

494
00:25:53,120 --> 00:25:56,120
grief that you would experience
losing a pregnancy like that.

495
00:25:56,320 --> 00:25:58,520
It's it's.
It's like odd because it's like

496
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:02,280
undefined I think and sort of
interesting.

497
00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:06,720
Ex Mormon sidebar here.
I remember receiving my first

498
00:26:06,760 --> 00:26:10,480
stake calling.
So for the the non Mormon site

499
00:26:10,480 --> 00:26:14,960
there each ward or like parish
is organized in little groups

500
00:26:14,960 --> 00:26:19,840
into a larger grouping called a
stake.

501
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:22,960
Which So a little bouquet of
congregations.

502
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,640
A little.
Bouquet so this was like a high

503
00:26:25,640 --> 00:26:27,600
profile calling because it
wasn't just.

504
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:30,920
In the war.
It was in the state just because

505
00:26:30,920 --> 00:26:32,520
there was like 10 Mormons in
Ireland.

506
00:26:32,520 --> 00:26:35,600
So you have like 5 whatever
callings.

507
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,600
They call it a calling to make
it seem like the baby Jesus

508
00:26:38,600 --> 00:26:41,960
himself asked you to clean the
toilets in the church.

509
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,120
But it's also how they present
it, right?

510
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,520
Is that the the Bishop or the
state president or whoever like

511
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:52,760
prays for guidance from our Lord
as to who should be cleaning the

512
00:26:52,760 --> 00:26:56,400
toilets or whatever you know.
And at this time the Lord sees

513
00:26:56,400 --> 00:27:00,240
fit that it should be you and
Sister Peterson as I was then.

514
00:27:00,240 --> 00:27:04,960
So I, I got a, they give you a
blessing, the hands on the head.

515
00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:07,080
They if they call it, they set
you apart.

516
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:10,720
Like so you're divinely given
this role, which when you talk

517
00:27:10,720 --> 00:27:16,480
about, it's so weird, but I
actually was blessed in this

518
00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:20,120
blessing that my baby was
healthy, was growing, was

519
00:27:20,160 --> 00:27:22,600
strong.
I was, I was called to be a

520
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,200
mother.
I was going to be a mother.

521
00:27:24,720 --> 00:27:27,440
And imagine my surprise.
The next.

522
00:27:27,440 --> 00:27:32,160
Week when you miscarry.
So you're like, so sorry.

523
00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:36,840
Well, it's just you're so sweet.
Thank you, but it's just it's

524
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:39,840
like it's like a mind fuck
right, because you're just like

525
00:27:39,840 --> 00:27:42,960
but wait, what you told me it
would be OK And then that's when

526
00:27:42,960 --> 00:27:45,960
you go into the oh shit, did I
do like?

527
00:27:46,040 --> 00:27:47,120
Yeah.
Was it my fault?

528
00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:48,440
Yeah.
The guilt.

529
00:27:48,440 --> 00:27:51,520
Yes, you're like, what did, what
did I do here?

530
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,560
But.
I mean, what did I do in the

531
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,080
last week?
Right.

532
00:27:56,240 --> 00:27:59,400
I know and also like not to
believer this point either, but

533
00:27:59,600 --> 00:28:03,000
like what kind of loving God
would punish you with the loss

534
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:05,800
of a child?
Right, like one of the most

535
00:28:05,800 --> 00:28:06,920
terrible things.
Yeah.

536
00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,000
This is like a Melissa clap.
Stop it.

537
00:28:09,080 --> 00:28:14,000
Like clap.
No, but it I share that only to

538
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:20,520
be like the extent to which
being a Mormon at the time like

539
00:28:20,520 --> 00:28:22,560
impacts all of it.
Oh, absolutely.

540
00:28:22,560 --> 00:28:25,320
You know.
So I can certainly imagine like

541
00:28:25,320 --> 00:28:27,240
those thoughts going through
your head, like where did you

542
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:32,680
land with that in the end?
You know, I don't think until

543
00:28:33,600 --> 00:28:38,320
years later when I wasn't Mormon
anymore because, you know, it

544
00:28:38,320 --> 00:28:40,280
was interesting.
It was very like gendered

545
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:42,120
actually.
All the women would give me

546
00:28:42,480 --> 00:28:46,800
these beautiful.
Oh, the spirit jumped too soon

547
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:50,680
from the pre existence and and
maybe it's your next child or,

548
00:28:50,960 --> 00:28:54,160
you know, shit just happens.
Yeah, I think that's one of the

549
00:28:54,160 --> 00:28:58,080
most liberating things.
I, you know, conclusions I came

550
00:28:58,080 --> 00:29:00,280
to after the church.
Sometimes shit just happens.

551
00:29:00,360 --> 00:29:02,040
Yeah, there's not a reason.
That's right.

552
00:29:02,040 --> 00:29:04,760
We don't have to attach it to
the baby Jesus.

553
00:29:04,760 --> 00:29:07,160
So we're, you know, it's just a
thing.

554
00:29:07,440 --> 00:29:11,040
There was a chromosomal defect
and that was not a viable

555
00:29:11,040 --> 00:29:13,480
pregnancy.
Yeah, I mean, that's, that's the

556
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,840
most likely cause of
miscarriages.

557
00:29:15,840 --> 00:29:18,080
Sometimes it's something to do
with, you know, uterine

558
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,480
implantation or detachment.
But the most common thing is a

559
00:29:21,480 --> 00:29:26,000
chromosomal abnormality.
And that's extremely common.

560
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:29,360
I don't know even if people
realize how common it is because

561
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:31,840
many times it'll happen before
someone realizes that they're

562
00:29:31,840 --> 00:29:34,560
pregnant.
But estimates are it's probably

563
00:29:34,560 --> 00:29:39,520
close to half of all conceived
embryos are actually, we call it

564
00:29:39,520 --> 00:29:42,200
biology, spontaneously aborted
before term.

565
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,400
And, and you know, if you
realize you're pregnant, we call

566
00:29:44,400 --> 00:29:46,360
that a miscarriage.
But a lot of them actually

567
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,680
spontaneously abort even earlier
than that.

568
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:52,120
So it's, it's extremely common.
It's probably not talked about

569
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:55,160
enough for people to realize
just how common it is.

570
00:29:55,160 --> 00:29:58,520
And even without a religious
background, you know, people ask

571
00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,680
these questions like, what did I
do to 'cause this, Like, what

572
00:30:00,680 --> 00:30:02,720
did I do wrong?
Did I had like drink a cup of

573
00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,480
coffee, right?
Did I like sleep too much or not

574
00:30:05,560 --> 00:30:07,160
sleep enough?
Did I eat the wrong things?

575
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,440
And, and it's, it's, you know,
it's not your fault.

576
00:30:10,440 --> 00:30:12,480
It wasn't your fault.
It was never your fault.

577
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:15,840
Never, ever, ever.
And I like, I say that as well,

578
00:30:16,160 --> 00:30:20,000
not to be flippant and just be
like, oh, it's just this sciency

579
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,320
thing that happens, you know,
cuz obviously there's grief

580
00:30:22,320 --> 00:30:24,920
associated with it and those
questions.

581
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:32,240
And it's, it's really your, your
body working at like 100%, you

582
00:30:32,240 --> 00:30:36,480
know, and just doing what it
needs to do.

583
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,240
And again, and no way to
diminish the grief because

584
00:30:38,240 --> 00:30:40,440
that's so, so real.
It's still a loss.

585
00:30:40,560 --> 00:30:42,440
Absolutely.
And I'm not saying any of that

586
00:30:42,440 --> 00:30:45,200
to minimize grief.
What I'm saying is maybe we

587
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:48,680
could take the guilt and the
shame away from that and and the

588
00:30:48,680 --> 00:30:51,920
grief still is what it is 100%
take away from that at all.

589
00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,840
Yeah, but if you're doctors that
you dine and says what you just

590
00:30:54,840 --> 00:30:57,880
said, that's a game changer
because you're like, I would

591
00:30:57,880 --> 00:30:58,600
hope so.
OK.

592
00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:01,080
Like, there's nothing.
There's nothing I could do.

593
00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:03,520
You didn't do anything wrong,
like you said, sometimes shit

594
00:31:03,520 --> 00:31:06,760
just happens.
Yes, and you know, I, I feel

595
00:31:06,760 --> 00:31:09,840
like in the context of
motherhood, it could also be a

596
00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:14,360
good time to mention in our Utah
legislature here a couple of

597
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:18,360
years ago, one of the the deer
legislators.

598
00:31:18,960 --> 00:31:20,560
Proposed a bill?
Oh no.

599
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:22,520
You're like, I know what's.
Coming.

600
00:31:22,680 --> 00:31:26,920
Yeah, that if you miscarry here
in the great state of Utah,

601
00:31:27,160 --> 00:31:30,360
which you know, as we pointed
out is extremely common,

602
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:33,560
extremely, that there would have
to be an investigation done to

603
00:31:33,560 --> 00:31:35,880
make sure that you didn't
induce.

604
00:31:36,040 --> 00:31:40,440
Oh my God.
Which, you know, again, like to

605
00:31:40,440 --> 00:31:44,880
your point, that's that will
exacerbate the guilt, not just,

606
00:31:45,240 --> 00:31:50,800
you know, from 8 literal medical
scientific viewpoint saying no

607
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:53,720
like this, this happens to about
50% of pregnancies.

608
00:31:53,720 --> 00:31:57,280
Yeah, let's leave it at that.
Yeah, I mean, I know there are

609
00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,280
some states that sometimes do
prosecute women who have

610
00:32:00,280 --> 00:32:04,760
miscarried and stop it.
Just stop, you absolute asshole.

611
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,760
Stop that immediately.
Just stop.

612
00:32:07,240 --> 00:32:09,720
Like it's, it's, it's crazy.
Yeah.

613
00:32:10,240 --> 00:32:13,120
Yeah, it's it's wild.
So, yeah, I had another.

614
00:32:13,240 --> 00:32:15,840
Then I got pregnant pretty
quickly after that.

615
00:32:17,760 --> 00:32:22,680
And I had a child at 2426 and
30.

616
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:27,040
Yeah.
And and then at 30, I was like,

617
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:29,120
OK, I'm, I'm good.
That's enough.

618
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:31,040
I'm good.
Yeah.

619
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:34,840
So it was, it was a little crazy
in those early days.

620
00:32:34,840 --> 00:32:38,000
And sometimes, you know, I look
at those Secret Lives of Mormon

621
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:41,720
Wives shows and I'm just like,
how did, how did I ever do that?

622
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:45,360
You've got this little legion of
young children and you're in

623
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:48,400
your 20s.
Like, how did I keep them all

624
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:50,160
together in a group?
I don't know.

625
00:32:50,440 --> 00:32:52,720
I have no idea.
I'm the oldest of five.

626
00:32:52,720 --> 00:32:55,800
I have no idea how that worked
out exactly.

627
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,120
Yeah, that's that's a lot of
kids.

628
00:32:58,120 --> 00:33:00,440
It's a lot of kids.
Like a lot of kids.

629
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,600
Yeah.
Well, and, and you and I both,

630
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:08,320
what we share in common was
studying while pregnant.

631
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:09,720
Oh.
God, that's right.

632
00:33:09,720 --> 00:33:11,600
We're.
Terminal degrees, yes.

633
00:33:13,400 --> 00:33:16,680
Would not recommend.
Definitely would not recommend.

634
00:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,520
It's it's it's a lot.
Yeah, it's a lot.

635
00:33:21,720 --> 00:33:23,760
Yeah.
Though shout out to Ireland.

636
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:29,760
I was doing my PhD in Ireland
when I was pregnant with my BB

637
00:33:29,760 --> 00:33:35,840
child and I was on AI, had a
full right scholarship and I got

638
00:33:35,840 --> 00:33:38,520
four months maternity leave.
Oh wow, yeah.

639
00:33:38,760 --> 00:33:40,560
That's great.
And they paid me amazing.

640
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,800
They paid me scholarship and
give me four months off.

641
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:43,960
Wow.
Any kind of work?

642
00:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,520
So that's so enlightens.
Yay socialism.

643
00:33:48,160 --> 00:33:50,760
Yay socialism.
Yeah.

644
00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:54,040
I'd love to talk about that
then, because I had all my

645
00:33:54,040 --> 00:33:55,680
babies in Ireland.
Yeah.

646
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,840
And you had your baby.
Here I did, but it was a little

647
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,680
bit different because I was in
Graduate School, so I was being

648
00:34:02,680 --> 00:34:04,800
paid.
I was on a like a federal

649
00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:08,800
fellowship, I think at the time
and I can't remember exactly how

650
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:12,760
all that went down, but it's
it's kind of a varying landscape

651
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,679
for higher education here in the
United States.

652
00:34:15,679 --> 00:34:18,520
So some people pay to earn their
degrees.

653
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:23,000
I was actually paid and that is
standard in my field of biology.

654
00:34:23,280 --> 00:34:26,360
If you have to pay for a
terminal degree, you should not

655
00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:28,719
be doing that.
You you should be compensated.

656
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,159
Now, the compensation is low, I
will say, but at least you're

657
00:34:32,159 --> 00:34:34,840
not going into debt, for
example, to get a graduate

658
00:34:34,840 --> 00:34:38,080
degree.
And so I'm not really sure.

659
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:42,960
I think I probably could have
taken, you know, the standard

660
00:34:42,960 --> 00:34:44,800
amount of leave, which isn't
very much.

661
00:34:45,120 --> 00:34:48,719
And I could subsequently have
gone on Family and Medical Leave

662
00:34:48,719 --> 00:34:51,639
Act.
So FMLA unpaid for probably an

663
00:34:51,639 --> 00:34:54,679
unspecified amount of time.
But there were a few reasons why

664
00:34:54,840 --> 00:34:58,720
that would have been a bad idea.
Like #1 I'd been in Graduate

665
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,600
School for a long time and I was
really sick of it.

666
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:04,080
And I needed to be done just
like for my mental health needed

667
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,800
to be done.
And then secondly, this is a a

668
00:35:07,800 --> 00:35:12,640
bit tragic, but my PhD advisor
was battling terminal cancer at

669
00:35:12,640 --> 00:35:16,080
the time, and he actually passed
away a few months after I

670
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,000
defended my dissertation.
So it, it was very sad, but it

671
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:23,640
was also a race to sort of
finish it before he, he, he died

672
00:35:23,720 --> 00:35:25,960
because we all knew at that
point that that was what was

673
00:35:25,960 --> 00:35:26,600
going to happen.
Yeah.

674
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:28,400
Oh, that's rough.
Yeah.

675
00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:34,720
I'm so sorry on top of baby and
fried brain from.

676
00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,360
Oh, it was real fried.
Yes.

677
00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,000
I got so angry when people are
like, oh, just sleep when your

678
00:35:40,000 --> 00:35:41,520
baby sleeps.
I'm like, I can't.

679
00:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,080
I'm writing a dissertation.
To write a goddamn.

680
00:35:44,080 --> 00:35:48,880
Thesis and he did not sleep well
for the first six months.

681
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,800
I mean, he was pretty much a
champion after that.

682
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,040
But like like, and he wasn't
fussy, he wasn't colicky.

683
00:35:55,040 --> 00:35:58,720
He just came out hungry, like so
fucking hungry.

684
00:35:59,040 --> 00:36:02,840
Like he was born at like 6 lbs
twelve, so kind of right at the

685
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:07,240
middle, right?
Like right at the average, he

686
00:36:07,240 --> 00:36:10,720
was right about 50th percentile
for weight when he was born.

687
00:36:11,320 --> 00:36:14,320
By month two, our our second
month appointment, he was at the

688
00:36:14,320 --> 00:36:17,800
99th percentile for weight,
99th.

689
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:22,160
And he did not fall out of that
until he was in late elementary

690
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:25,520
school.
Like he just wanted to eat like

691
00:36:25,520 --> 00:36:29,880
every two hours for six months.
And like, were you nursing?

692
00:36:29,880 --> 00:36:31,400
Yes.
Oh my God.

693
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:34,800
Yeah, I mean, I, we, I would
sometimes like give him a

694
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:36,880
bottle.
Yeah, very rarely.

695
00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:39,720
Because, you know, I was
producing plenty of milk for

696
00:36:39,720 --> 00:36:42,120
that little guy, right?
Because he was nursing every two

697
00:36:42,120 --> 00:36:44,960
hours.
But there were times like my mom

698
00:36:44,960 --> 00:36:47,920
would come over, for example,
and I was like, here's a bottle.

699
00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:50,920
Like either I would pump or I
would do like formula like so I

700
00:36:50,920 --> 00:36:53,880
could just sleep for like 4
hours straight because I had I

701
00:36:54,120 --> 00:36:56,680
did not get that at all for the
first six months.

702
00:36:57,080 --> 00:36:59,560
He was just so hungry and other
other than that, he was the

703
00:36:59,560 --> 00:37:02,760
happiest baby in the world as
long as his little stomach was

704
00:37:02,760 --> 00:37:04,120
full.
I know.

705
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,200
I found it so funny.
I learned like the term cluster

706
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:08,720
feeding.
Like several years later

707
00:37:08,720 --> 00:37:10,720
somebody was like, oh, that's
where they feed every two hours.

708
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:13,720
I was like, Oh well, he did six
months of cluster feeding then.

709
00:37:14,080 --> 00:37:16,160
Wow, it has a name.
Yeah.

710
00:37:16,640 --> 00:37:20,600
And then in six months, he
started on on solid food and he

711
00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:23,920
that was when he started
actually sleeping more than two

712
00:37:23,920 --> 00:37:26,600
to three hours at a time.
The poor baby, he's just.

713
00:37:26,720 --> 00:37:28,040
Like I'm just.
Hungry.

714
00:37:28,360 --> 00:37:32,040
Like, give me something
substantial here that I can.

715
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:36,280
Chew on when he would just like,
smile at me for two hours until

716
00:37:36,280 --> 00:37:38,920
he was ready to eat again.
You know he was a doll.

717
00:37:38,920 --> 00:37:41,040
Oh.
My God, yeah.

718
00:37:41,040 --> 00:37:43,320
That that is exhaustive.
Oh, yeah.

719
00:37:43,760 --> 00:37:46,560
It's.
And you know, when you're also

720
00:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,480
in that mode of study, it's,
there's like a, a mental

721
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,160
emotional weight too, because
it's always on your mind.

722
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:58,000
You're always thinking about it.
And you know, that's rough to

723
00:37:58,000 --> 00:38:02,080
do.
My middle child was born when I

724
00:38:02,080 --> 00:38:08,080
was in like the final months of
my masters and my dissertation

725
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:11,440
was due about like 2 weeks after
he was born.

726
00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:15,800
Oh God that's horrible.
Have my laptop in the hospital.

727
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:19,400
Like it's.
Like typing, typing, typing.

728
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:24,920
And I just, I got out of
hospital and I went to class the

729
00:38:24,920 --> 00:38:27,520
next week and I just bought him
in his little car seat.

730
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:30,040
And my goodness, yeah.
Wow, that's rough.

731
00:38:30,120 --> 00:38:34,880
Finished and then honestly, like
I think I had like 2 weeks left

732
00:38:34,880 --> 00:38:38,000
of the program, submitted my
dissertation and I didn't even

733
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:40,640
go to my graduation.
Yeah, I was so tired.

734
00:38:41,120 --> 00:38:45,200
I didn't go either, but it was
because my advisor had passed

735
00:38:45,240 --> 00:38:47,240
and I was like, you know, 'cause
it didn't feel.

736
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:49,320
Right.
Well the PhD thing, like the big

737
00:38:49,320 --> 00:38:52,600
thing is like they hood you, so
the the advisor puts the hood on

738
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:55,240
you and without him there just
wasn't a point in going.

739
00:38:55,680 --> 00:38:57,760
I'm so sorry.
That makes sense.

740
00:38:57,760 --> 00:39:02,880
Yeah, 'cause yeah, that's, yeah,
that is rough.

741
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:07,600
That is rough.
As is studying, studying with

742
00:39:07,600 --> 00:39:11,040
babies, extremely rough.
It's it's very cute.

743
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:15,320
My oldest, we had this
realization that she's actually

744
00:39:15,320 --> 00:39:20,880
at the same university in
Ireland doing a very, very close

745
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,360
related master's program at the
same age that I was there doing

746
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:28,840
that master's program.
And occasionally she would just

747
00:39:28,840 --> 00:39:31,920
go, oh, my God, Mom, how did you
do this with children?

748
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:33,760
Right.
Like you had me and you were

749
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:35,120
pregnant.
Like what?

750
00:39:35,600 --> 00:39:38,840
And yeah, it's, it's, it's a
little bit bonkers.

751
00:39:38,880 --> 00:39:40,960
But it is bonkers.
I mean, if anyone could do it,

752
00:39:40,960 --> 00:39:43,240
it's you.
I'm still like amazed day-to-day

753
00:39:43,240 --> 00:39:46,400
when I hear what you're actually
accomplishing, Tayan and day

754
00:39:46,440 --> 00:39:49,840
out, it like blows me away.
I think I have problems, that's

755
00:39:49,840 --> 00:39:52,800
very kind of you, but.
Like looking at your calendar

756
00:39:52,800 --> 00:39:57,040
makes me tired.
It it makes me tired and I think

757
00:39:57,240 --> 00:40:00,720
some changes, some changes need
to come, but that's a whole

758
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:02,440
other episode.
Yeah, it is.

759
00:40:02,800 --> 00:40:03,880
That's all.
Well, let.

760
00:40:03,880 --> 00:40:07,920
Me ask you this, did you always
know that you wanted to be a

761
00:40:07,920 --> 00:40:09,520
mom?
Was that always like a goal of

762
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:12,600
yours?
I don't think so.

763
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,640
I was that that's a weird
question given or a weird

764
00:40:16,640 --> 00:40:19,880
response given.
I have three children, but in

765
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:25,480
the way that I was the baby of
the family and I was the

766
00:40:25,480 --> 00:40:27,840
youngest of all the cousins, or
at least the youngest of the

767
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:30,360
cousins.
My younger cousins lived in

768
00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:34,800
Australia, so I didn't see them.
So I really didn't have like

769
00:40:35,040 --> 00:40:40,800
experience of babies.
I was always the baby and, you

770
00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:49,080
know, I just, it didn't, I just,
I don't know, I, I never, I

771
00:40:49,080 --> 00:40:51,440
never really thought I would get
married.

772
00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:54,840
Interesting.
I never, it's not that I didn't

773
00:40:54,840 --> 00:41:00,920
want it, but I just didn't kind
of really be like, OK, I want to

774
00:41:00,920 --> 00:41:02,560
have children.
I want to have children at this

775
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:04,960
age.
And, you know, when I got

776
00:41:04,960 --> 00:41:08,440
married then, you know, I was
like, oh, I'm I'm going to have

777
00:41:08,440 --> 00:41:12,520
the babies.
Like, you know, but I, I never

778
00:41:12,520 --> 00:41:17,120
considered myself like
necessarily super maternal or

779
00:41:17,120 --> 00:41:19,920
the person that was like a baby,
you know?

780
00:41:19,920 --> 00:41:22,320
Yeah.
That that that just wasn't like

781
00:41:22,840 --> 00:41:25,680
me until I had babies.
And then everything changed.

782
00:41:25,680 --> 00:41:28,840
But what about you?
Was it like a a thing You were

783
00:41:28,840 --> 00:41:30,080
always like, I'm going to do
that?

784
00:41:30,680 --> 00:41:34,000
No, I would say no.
Certainly like in growing up in

785
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:36,040
the Mormon church, they pushed
that really hard, right.

786
00:41:36,040 --> 00:41:38,200
It's all like temple marriage,
motherhood, temple marriage,

787
00:41:38,200 --> 00:41:39,920
motherhood, like etcetera,
etcetera.

788
00:41:39,920 --> 00:41:43,240
And I guess when I was a kid, I
kind of felt like, well, yeah, I

789
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:45,680
mean, eventually, like, that'll
probably happen.

790
00:41:45,680 --> 00:41:49,000
But I was also like focused on
getting a college degree and

791
00:41:49,000 --> 00:41:50,840
studying.
Like that was more interesting

792
00:41:50,840 --> 00:41:53,160
to me.
And I would say even before I

793
00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:55,280
really sort of had a faith
crisis and started

794
00:41:55,280 --> 00:42:00,600
deconstructing, it was a future
that felt very dark to me to

795
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:04,280
like get married, stay home, pop
out a whole bunch of babies that

796
00:42:04,480 --> 00:42:08,360
that just felt like really icky.
I didn't like thinking about it.

797
00:42:08,560 --> 00:42:13,160
It seemed very foreign to me and
like kind of awful, to be

798
00:42:13,160 --> 00:42:15,280
honest.
And then in college, going to

799
00:42:15,280 --> 00:42:18,760
BYU, I, I really felt even more
so because I started to see

800
00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,120
roommates getting married and
drop out of college, for

801
00:42:21,120 --> 00:42:25,200
example, or get pregnant really
quickly and like try to be

802
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:28,760
managing like a baby And also to
working to put their husbands

803
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,280
through school because we know
who the important person is in

804
00:42:31,280 --> 00:42:34,440
this family, right?
And that just felt again, like

805
00:42:34,440 --> 00:42:36,480
gross and dark.
It didn't feel like a future I

806
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,160
wanted any part of.
That's fair.

807
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:44,560
So I was not like, opposed to
having kids.

808
00:42:44,960 --> 00:42:48,080
I wanted to like, get married at
some point, right?

809
00:42:48,080 --> 00:42:51,720
I, you know, did when I was 28.
So I wasn't like in a rush.

810
00:42:51,720 --> 00:42:54,560
Exactly.
But the kids I was kind of on

811
00:42:54,560 --> 00:42:57,680
the fence about.
And when I got married, we were

812
00:42:57,680 --> 00:42:59,440
both a little bit on the on the
fence about it.

813
00:42:59,440 --> 00:43:02,800
Like we talked about it and it
was kind of a oh, maybe, but

814
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,760
like down the road, like when
school is done, when residency

815
00:43:05,760 --> 00:43:08,440
is done, like all the things.
But like, it was, it was a maybe

816
00:43:08,440 --> 00:43:09,880
it was a question mark.
Yeah.

817
00:43:09,880 --> 00:43:13,360
And then I just turned out to be
super fertile as the women in my

818
00:43:13,360 --> 00:43:17,000
family tend to be.
So yeah, you know, there you go.

819
00:43:17,000 --> 00:43:18,880
But then good problems.
Good problems.

820
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,680
Yeah, but but.
But again, like, the hormones

821
00:43:21,680 --> 00:43:26,320
are just, wow, they're powerful
Like that oxytocin or whatever

822
00:43:26,320 --> 00:43:29,240
that like starts being produced
when you get pregnant.

823
00:43:29,240 --> 00:43:32,920
It is a hell of a drug, shall we
just say right?

824
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:37,240
It changes so fast too.
You're just like, whoa,

825
00:43:37,400 --> 00:43:39,960
overnight, Yes.
Clearly I'm a different person.

826
00:43:39,960 --> 00:43:43,560
Not Yep, Yep, Yep.
And you kind of never go back.

827
00:43:43,560 --> 00:43:46,680
And like, even from the earliest
stages of, of being pregnant, I

828
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:48,440
felt that.
And then when they put that baby

829
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:50,480
in my arms, you're like, oh,
holy shit.

830
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,840
Like, yeah, yeah.
The whole world just shifted it.

831
00:43:53,920 --> 00:43:55,520
It's it's.
Pretty incredible.

832
00:43:55,520 --> 00:44:01,320
Like I, yeah, when you remember
when they're born and they lift

833
00:44:01,320 --> 00:44:07,400
the baby up like it's, I was
just speechless the first time.

834
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:13,000
I was like, Oh my God, there's a
person like, yeah, it is.

835
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:16,120
It's honestly wild.
Like it is.

836
00:44:16,960 --> 00:44:19,360
It's just so wild and amazing
and crazy.

837
00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:23,320
Oh yeah, I remember that moment
like, so clearly because like,

838
00:44:23,680 --> 00:44:26,560
you know, the baby was born.
It was right before midnight,

839
00:44:26,560 --> 00:44:29,920
like a couple minutes before I'd
been in labor all day because I

840
00:44:29,920 --> 00:44:31,800
was induced.
But that was a different story

841
00:44:31,800 --> 00:44:35,840
anyway, you know, and the, the
baby's crying, which, like, I

842
00:44:35,840 --> 00:44:38,320
don't know about you.
I suspect it's similar.

843
00:44:38,800 --> 00:44:40,920
That felt physically painful.
Yes.

844
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:42,400
When they were very new.
Yeah.

845
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,920
Like physical pain.
Like, I will do anything to,

846
00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:46,280
like, how do I fix that?
Yeah.

847
00:44:46,440 --> 00:44:49,080
How do I fix to like make you
better?

848
00:44:49,800 --> 00:44:52,240
And they did like all the like
things like, you know, the

849
00:44:52,240 --> 00:44:54,080
weighing and the putting the
drops in the eyes and all the

850
00:44:54,080 --> 00:44:55,520
thing.
They were like stitching me up

851
00:44:55,520 --> 00:44:59,040
and they finally like put the
baby in my arms, right?

852
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:01,360
And like, you already kind of
know this person because it's

853
00:45:01,360 --> 00:45:03,520
been inside you, right?
And they know you because

854
00:45:03,520 --> 00:45:07,160
they've been hearing your voice,
you know, for the whole nine

855
00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:09,200
months.
So they, he was crying.

856
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,280
They put him in my arms and I
said, Hey, baby, like I'm your

857
00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:14,200
Mama.
And he looked at me with these

858
00:45:14,240 --> 00:45:16,400
Big Blue eyes and stopped
crying.

859
00:45:16,920 --> 00:45:18,400
And we just stared at each
other.

860
00:45:18,800 --> 00:45:21,880
That I That's so lovely.
It was magical.

861
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:25,800
As we sit and like stop.
And we're like, Oh my God.

862
00:45:26,160 --> 00:45:31,440
Yeah.
But yeah, that he just, he knew.

863
00:45:31,440 --> 00:45:33,280
You.
He did, and as soon as he as

864
00:45:33,320 --> 00:45:35,080
soon as he heard my voice, he
stopped crying.

865
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:38,280
Wow.
Yeah, that's, yeah, that's so

866
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:39,080
lovely.
Right.

867
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,120
You know we're both in tears,
yo.

868
00:45:41,240 --> 00:45:46,200
Oh my.
God, because it's like, I think

869
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:50,920
the thing with religion is like,
it kind of contorted this idea

870
00:45:50,920 --> 00:45:55,000
of what motherhood should be to
me, where it felt almost like a

871
00:45:55,000 --> 00:45:58,840
performative thing.
But I kind of didn't fit the

872
00:45:58,840 --> 00:46:03,840
Mormon mold in that when I got
married as an infant, basically.

873
00:46:04,880 --> 00:46:07,640
Babies had babies early.
Turned 21 years old.

874
00:46:08,760 --> 00:46:10,480
We didn't have babies right
away.

875
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,240
It was, it was three years
later, which, you know, you can

876
00:46:15,240 --> 00:46:18,040
imagine how many people were
like, where are the babies?

877
00:46:18,040 --> 00:46:21,320
Where are the babies?
Which don't ever say that to

878
00:46:21,320 --> 00:46:23,160
anybody.
People stop doing that.

879
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:24,080
Stop.
Doing that.

880
00:46:24,080 --> 00:46:26,720
Such a shitty thing to do and I
know a lot of people are just

881
00:46:26,720 --> 00:46:28,920
being thoughtless and don't
realize what they're doing, but

882
00:46:28,920 --> 00:46:31,960
what if it's someone struggling
with infertility and all they

883
00:46:32,000 --> 00:46:34,760
want is to have a baby and
you're just like rubbing salt in

884
00:46:34,760 --> 00:46:37,320
that wound 0.
Thanks for letting me remember

885
00:46:37,320 --> 00:46:38,560
that.
Yeah, exactly.

886
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:40,360
You know that wasn't the case.
I just.

887
00:46:40,360 --> 00:46:44,680
I am grateful in that regard
where we both just didn't feel

888
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:45,960
ready.
Exactly.

889
00:46:45,960 --> 00:46:51,440
And we have gotten married and
he had moved to Ireland because

890
00:46:51,440 --> 00:46:55,320
I had less time of my bachelor's
left than he did.

891
00:46:55,720 --> 00:46:58,680
And in Ireland it's different.
You can't sort of take a break

892
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:00,920
and go back.
Like if you stop you have to go

893
00:47:01,120 --> 00:47:04,240
back to year 00 wow and start
your degree all over again.

894
00:47:04,240 --> 00:47:05,800
That's horrible.
Yeah, so.

895
00:47:06,240 --> 00:47:09,040
You know, it was like, let's
just get yours finished and then

896
00:47:09,040 --> 00:47:11,440
we'll move back to America.
And that was our plan.

897
00:47:11,720 --> 00:47:14,160
So we obviously didn't want to
throw a baby into the mix of

898
00:47:14,160 --> 00:47:16,160
that.
You know, that's a lot

899
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:19,160
emigrating and wrapping up
school, moving to a new country.

900
00:47:19,960 --> 00:47:23,200
But then we switched plans and
we decided to stay in Ireland.

901
00:47:23,200 --> 00:47:27,680
And we stayed there for another
nine years and had all our kids

902
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:29,280
there.
And so we're like, let's have a

903
00:47:29,280 --> 00:47:33,000
baby.
But yeah, I don't think I was

904
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:37,560
expecting that feeling that you
just described when they were

905
00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:39,960
born.
And like this might sound weird,

906
00:47:39,960 --> 00:47:43,120
but they they never feel that
warm again, you know, like when

907
00:47:43,120 --> 00:47:46,240
they just lift them right up and
put them on your belly and it's

908
00:47:46,240 --> 00:47:50,360
just the the coziest And I you
know, I would imagine because

909
00:47:50,680 --> 00:47:54,360
I'm the woo woo one of the
group, It's like it's it, it's

910
00:47:54,360 --> 00:47:57,240
maybe not even just this literal
aborms.

911
00:47:57,240 --> 00:47:59,160
I don't know.
It's just like the coziest, best

912
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:00,560
feeling ever.
Yeah.

913
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,160
And you know they know.
You.

914
00:48:04,160 --> 00:48:05,000
Yeah.
Yeah.

915
00:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,000
Oh yeah.
It's it's pretty cool.

916
00:48:07,840 --> 00:48:09,360
It is.
It's it's a good.

917
00:48:09,400 --> 00:48:12,000
Feeling it's amazing.
Did this might sound like a

918
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:15,400
weird question?
Did you like, enjoy giving

919
00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:16,800
birth?
I mean like, what was that

920
00:48:16,800 --> 00:48:17,840
experience like?
For you.

921
00:48:17,840 --> 00:48:22,200
Oh God, no.
I heard somebody say once, and I

922
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:25,520
don't remember who, so I
apologize if I'm, you know,

923
00:48:25,960 --> 00:48:31,120
stealing your words, but they
said the only miracle of birth

924
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:33,920
is that one person goes into the
hospital and two people come.

925
00:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,840
Out.
I love that that's so pragmatic.

926
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:43,440
Just like Yep.
Yeah, I mean, it was fairly

927
00:48:43,560 --> 00:48:47,960
awful for a bunch of reasons.
So number one, I was just a few

928
00:48:47,960 --> 00:48:52,480
days past the due date, but I
was induced because my husband

929
00:48:52,480 --> 00:48:54,680
at the time was very adamant
that he'd already taken his two

930
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:57,240
weeks off and he could not
switch those two weeks.

931
00:48:57,240 --> 00:49:00,000
So I'd better give birth that
Friday, otherwise I would have

932
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,960
no support because he was going
to go back to work.

933
00:49:05,040 --> 00:49:06,320
Yeah.
So.

934
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:09,600
Well, well done, Melissa.
You know, I've come a long way

935
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:14,680
and learning to advocate for
myself, Claire, but at the time

936
00:49:14,680 --> 00:49:17,920
and you know, I'm I won't go
into like everything, but I was

937
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:21,000
I complied for for reasons
anyway.

938
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:25,560
So, so I, you know, they took me
in at probably 10 in the morning

939
00:49:25,560 --> 00:49:29,600
and put the drug in to get the
contractions going and it was

940
00:49:29,600 --> 00:49:33,760
kind of slow getting started.
They had to put the antibiotics

941
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:36,000
in right?
Like the what is it the strep A

942
00:49:36,000 --> 00:49:37,840
or whatever.
I was positive for that.

943
00:49:37,840 --> 00:49:40,400
Not a big deal that they just
like put those in.

944
00:49:40,400 --> 00:49:44,720
They placed the IVI passed out.
That was just lovely, just

945
00:49:44,720 --> 00:49:49,280
terrible.
And then I had opted for an

946
00:49:49,280 --> 00:49:54,400
epidural and it at least
partially failed as 10% of

947
00:49:54,400 --> 00:49:56,960
epidurals do, which is something
they don't really explain to

948
00:49:56,960 --> 00:49:59,600
you.
I had a resident place it and

949
00:49:59,600 --> 00:50:02,200
I'm not sure if she didn't know
what she was doing or if I'm an

950
00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:07,920
anatomical variant or like what
it was, but I could still feel

951
00:50:07,960 --> 00:50:11,600
an pretty indescribable amount
of pain.

952
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:13,760
Oh my goodness.
But there was at least like a

953
00:50:13,760 --> 00:50:16,360
partial effect of the epidural
because I also couldn't stand up

954
00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,840
or or like move very much so.
That sounds like.

955
00:50:18,840 --> 00:50:20,400
Harder.
It's kind of the worst symbol

956
00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:22,720
either like right, because you
can't get up and you can't like

957
00:50:22,760 --> 00:50:25,560
squat, which is kind of a more
natural like birth giving, but

958
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:27,560
you're feeling it.
But I I could feel it.

959
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:29,000
And they had, they had to turn
him too.

960
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:32,360
Yeah, which was almost more
painful.

961
00:50:32,480 --> 00:50:33,640
I would imagine.
Yeah.

962
00:50:33,760 --> 00:50:38,280
Then the rest of it, yeah, it
was, it was awful.

963
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:42,280
It was a lot of hours of just a
lot of pain, like kind of an

964
00:50:42,280 --> 00:50:46,760
unbelievable amount of pain.
And then at the end, like I was

965
00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,080
in unproductive labor for quite
a while.

966
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:53,120
The OB kind of towards the end,
she's like, I feel like the

967
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:56,520
heart rate's getting a little
more erratic than I want it to

968
00:50:56,520 --> 00:50:58,960
be.
So she was like, if you don't

969
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:01,800
deliver him soon, then it's, you
know, we're going to do the

970
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:04,560
episiotomy, right?
I'm going to cut and like, you

971
00:51:04,560 --> 00:51:08,200
know, pull the kid out.
But I did push him out very

972
00:51:08,200 --> 00:51:10,320
shortly thereafter, I guess.
That was a good motivator.

973
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,400
No motivator, right?
Well, especially because I could

974
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:16,080
feel like I don't want anyone
cutting down there and like that

975
00:51:16,240 --> 00:51:18,080
seems.
Horrible on top of all the other

976
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:19,040
peeing.
You're experiencing.

977
00:51:19,920 --> 00:51:23,120
Yeah.
So it was, you know, kind of

978
00:51:23,120 --> 00:51:24,080
awful.
There's a lot of pain.

979
00:51:24,080 --> 00:51:28,480
There was a lot of blood.
It was not great, but it was

980
00:51:28,560 --> 00:51:31,120
obviously all worth it was like
the the worst day and the best

981
00:51:31,120 --> 00:51:34,040
day of my life.
Yeah, like from the high, high

982
00:51:34,040 --> 00:51:36,640
to the low low.
Like, at least we started low.

983
00:51:36,720 --> 00:51:39,240
And ended with the baby.
Yes, that's.

984
00:51:39,600 --> 00:51:43,200
That is a good thing.
I mean, it is an in seeing

985
00:51:43,200 --> 00:51:46,680
process and I think birth
stories are so varied.

986
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,760
They really are and experiences
and you know, it depends where

987
00:51:50,760 --> 00:51:53,840
you are, what hospital you're
at, you know, like there's so

988
00:51:53,840 --> 00:51:57,840
many factors if you're induced,
if you're not like all the

989
00:51:57,840 --> 00:52:02,400
things and it like giving birth
feels like, Oh yeah, it's just a

990
00:52:02,400 --> 00:52:04,760
thing you do or this whole it's
just natural.

991
00:52:04,760 --> 00:52:07,320
Just do it and it's like.
Mental.

992
00:52:07,320 --> 00:52:09,600
It is mental.
Like it's like.

993
00:52:10,520 --> 00:52:15,080
You know, the the line of birth
death is like, yeah, you're like

994
00:52:15,160 --> 00:52:17,640
on it.
Oh, you are, Yes.

995
00:52:17,640 --> 00:52:22,080
And our maternal death rate in
the United States is is pretty

996
00:52:22,080 --> 00:52:23,920
high.
Terrifically high for a

997
00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,680
developed nation.
Yeah, it's not good.

998
00:52:26,840 --> 00:52:29,160
It's not good.
So that's always on the table.

999
00:52:29,240 --> 00:52:32,160
Is that like one or both of you
aren't going to make it right?

1000
00:52:32,240 --> 00:52:33,960
Yeah.
Even though most of the time it

1001
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:35,200
turns out fine.
Yeah.

1002
00:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,560
You are skirting that line, like
you said, between life and

1003
00:52:38,560 --> 00:52:39,240
death.
Yeah.

1004
00:52:39,480 --> 00:52:44,000
And two out of my 3 births I
decided to really go for it and

1005
00:52:44,000 --> 00:52:46,200
have like 2 near deaths
experience.

1006
00:52:46,400 --> 00:52:48,880
Claire, of course.
You're such an overachiever.

1007
00:52:48,880 --> 00:52:50,880
Of course you did.
I'm surprised you didn't almost

1008
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:52,240
die with all three of them, you
know?

1009
00:52:52,680 --> 00:52:58,920
Honestly, it's it was, it was so
frightening at the time, but in

1010
00:52:58,920 --> 00:53:05,720
hindsight, I am like, OK, you,
you just have like everything

1011
00:53:05,720 --> 00:53:08,000
you need inside of you.
I firmly believe that.

1012
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:10,160
I feel like it's like taught out
of you.

1013
00:53:10,480 --> 00:53:13,080
Or they'll tell you, Oh no, it's
the Holy Ghost.

1014
00:53:13,080 --> 00:53:16,600
There's a man, a man spirit.
Even though the Holy Ghost is,

1015
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,680
is actually androgynous, they're
never gendered right?

1016
00:53:20,680 --> 00:53:22,720
Like, but it's assumed to be a
man.

1017
00:53:23,000 --> 00:53:25,280
Yeah, that's how I've always
seen it depicted.

1018
00:53:25,280 --> 00:53:28,520
Although I had I guess there was
a strand a while ago that some

1019
00:53:28,520 --> 00:53:31,680
people thought that the Holy
Ghost was the Heavenly Mother

1020
00:53:31,680 --> 00:53:35,400
but that like it's heresy.
Like with the actual, you know,

1021
00:53:35,800 --> 00:53:38,200
official LDS church, but
spoiler.

1022
00:53:38,200 --> 00:53:42,360
Alert, it's your intuition, it's
you like, but you know, that's

1023
00:53:42,360 --> 00:53:44,200
that's what you're you're told
to believe.

1024
00:53:44,200 --> 00:53:49,640
But like, so I had midwife LED
care with all three of mine

1025
00:53:49,760 --> 00:53:53,000
because I that I just I wanted
to do that.

1026
00:53:53,000 --> 00:53:55,760
And it's culturally more of a
thing I think people do in

1027
00:53:55,760 --> 00:53:59,440
Ireland generally, rather than
the sort of more medical route,

1028
00:54:00,040 --> 00:54:01,600
although I did have them in
hospitals.

1029
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:03,520
Yeah, I think that makes a lot
of sense.

1030
00:54:03,520 --> 00:54:06,360
It's like kind of a good in
between, in my opinion.

1031
00:54:06,360 --> 00:54:10,720
Like a home birth scared me.
Just in case, because you never

1032
00:54:10,720 --> 00:54:12,640
know.
Just in fucking case, right?

1033
00:54:12,640 --> 00:54:15,080
Most of the time.
Again, it's going to be fine,

1034
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:19,640
but what if, you know, you
actually run into an emergency?

1035
00:54:19,640 --> 00:54:23,280
People die during home births
and like I just wanted to be

1036
00:54:23,280 --> 00:54:26,400
close to someone with a scalpel
who knows how to use it right

1037
00:54:26,400 --> 00:54:27,960
just in case.
Just in case.

1038
00:54:28,240 --> 00:54:32,880
Or a pediatrician call if if
there was something up when your

1039
00:54:32,880 --> 00:54:33,560
baby came back.
What?

1040
00:54:33,560 --> 00:54:35,760
If you have to resuscitate the
baby, right?

1041
00:54:35,840 --> 00:54:41,080
And yeah, so that I would love
that, but also just my nerves

1042
00:54:41,200 --> 00:54:43,240
would not have have let me do
that.

1043
00:54:43,400 --> 00:54:45,720
So if you knew it was all going
to be fine, you would.

1044
00:54:45,720 --> 00:54:54,400
But yeah, I was, I had a, a
pretty easy labor for a first

1045
00:54:54,400 --> 00:54:57,280
child.
Like I, I woke up in the middle

1046
00:54:57,280 --> 00:55:00,480
of the night and was like, oh,
I, I think somethings happening.

1047
00:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,240
And I was so pissed off because
one of my best friends had come

1048
00:55:03,240 --> 00:55:07,600
to visit me the the day previous
and had just birthed their first

1049
00:55:07,600 --> 00:55:08,800
child.
So it was very exciting.

1050
00:55:08,800 --> 00:55:10,360
We were having our babies.
Together.

1051
00:55:10,880 --> 00:55:15,560
And but I was so tired and I was
like, I am going to sleep late

1052
00:55:15,560 --> 00:55:18,240
tomorrow and I feel like I never
got that.

1053
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:21,200
Sleeping.
You're still waiting for it.

1054
00:55:21,200 --> 00:55:23,680
Still waiting?
So I get up in the night and I

1055
00:55:23,680 --> 00:55:26,560
was like, I think labor could be
happening.

1056
00:55:26,920 --> 00:55:32,600
And it was in fact labor.
But you know, being cognizant of

1057
00:55:32,600 --> 00:55:36,040
my husbands schedule, I was
like, we can, we can just go in

1058
00:55:36,040 --> 00:55:38,240
after you wake up in the morning
like it's fine.

1059
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:42,000
So I just kind of hottered about
the house laboring.

1060
00:55:44,640 --> 00:55:47,240
Yeah.
But you know, funny story here,

1061
00:55:48,160 --> 00:55:50,960
but also not.
And I'm so grateful that both of

1062
00:55:50,960 --> 00:55:54,520
us have turned into different
humans at this point.

1063
00:55:54,640 --> 00:55:58,640
But I was also trying to be
mindful of my husband's schedule

1064
00:55:58,640 --> 00:56:02,040
and he jokingly was like, could
you have them at the weekend?

1065
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:05,280
Ha ha, My children were born
Friday.

1066
00:56:05,280 --> 00:56:06,200
Saturday.
Sunday.

1067
00:56:06,200 --> 00:56:08,920
Oh my God, that's amazing.
Without being induced.

1068
00:56:08,920 --> 00:56:11,400
Look at you, I.
Literally think I was that much

1069
00:56:11,400 --> 00:56:14,480
of A people pleaser.
Even your uterus.

1070
00:56:14,680 --> 00:56:18,520
My uterus was like, OK, OK
Queen, we can only do.

1071
00:56:18,520 --> 00:56:21,400
This.
On a Friday, Saturday or Sunday,

1072
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:25,560
Oh my God, literally born
Friday, Saturday, Sunday.

1073
00:56:26,400 --> 00:56:29,480
That's hilarious.
It's like mortifying, 'cause

1074
00:56:29,480 --> 00:56:32,520
you're just like, Jesus, I
really was that much of A people

1075
00:56:32,520 --> 00:56:34,920
pleaser so.
Yeah, I feel, yeah.

1076
00:56:35,120 --> 00:56:38,800
Yeah.
So yeah, I, it just, it didn't

1077
00:56:38,800 --> 00:56:41,000
even last that long.
It was kind of the whole day,

1078
00:56:41,000 --> 00:56:43,400
about 7:30.
I went down to the birthing

1079
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:46,080
room.
My midwife though, was kind of a

1080
00:56:46,080 --> 00:56:49,480
Ding Dong because she had just
come back after like 9 months of

1081
00:56:49,480 --> 00:56:52,320
maternity leave.
The, because, you know, we

1082
00:56:52,560 --> 00:56:56,560
there's longer maternity leave
over there in America.

1083
00:56:56,560 --> 00:56:59,680
It's like, OK, you've had five
minutes, get back to work.

1084
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:01,800
Exactly.
Why haven't you answered my

1085
00:57:01,880 --> 00:57:02,520
e-mail?
No.

1086
00:57:03,360 --> 00:57:06,000
You've been waiting.
A day you just give birth.

1087
00:57:06,000 --> 00:57:10,880
What the hell?
Yeah, so she was distracted by,

1088
00:57:10,880 --> 00:57:13,920
like, showing pictures of her
first born child to everybody

1089
00:57:13,920 --> 00:57:17,160
that came into the room.
I was like, hey girlie, like.

1090
00:57:17,160 --> 00:57:20,800
Like something's happening here,
maybe a little attention to.

1091
00:57:20,840 --> 00:57:25,880
Detail so So that was little
bonkers, but I also had the same

1092
00:57:27,280 --> 00:57:31,240
and they like not threat, but
guidance that, you know, we're

1093
00:57:31,240 --> 00:57:33,440
worried about the baby's heart
rate and they were going to

1094
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:35,680
what's the thing they put on
their head forceps.

1095
00:57:35,720 --> 00:57:38,280
Oh, the forceps, yeah.
And I was like, Jesus, no, I

1096
00:57:38,280 --> 00:57:40,400
don't.
I don't want that for either

1097
00:57:40,600 --> 00:57:43,440
scary, my vagina or the baby's
head.

1098
00:57:43,560 --> 00:57:44,640
Yeah.
Because it comes out a little

1099
00:57:44,640 --> 00:57:46,400
like it's a conehead.
Yes.

1100
00:57:46,400 --> 00:57:49,600
And I was like, I, I just don't
think I want to do that.

1101
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:52,400
So I was like, pushed like,
yeah.

1102
00:57:52,400 --> 00:57:58,000
And so she was thankfully born
before any of that was

1103
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:01,560
necessary.
So, you know, they lifted her

1104
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:04,240
out, put her in my chest.
I think the first thing I said

1105
00:58:04,240 --> 00:58:07,680
to her was, oh, you've got a wee
Pixie face like your dad because

1106
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:11,480
her nose, it was so cute, cute.
And, you know, took her off,

1107
00:58:11,480 --> 00:58:13,520
waiter bought her back.
I nursed her.

1108
00:58:14,600 --> 00:58:16,240
And that's when I realized
something was very.

1109
00:58:16,240 --> 00:58:17,160
Wrong.
Oh no.

1110
00:58:17,480 --> 00:58:21,440
So I started to, you know,
because they like you to nurse

1111
00:58:21,440 --> 00:58:26,320
because everything contracts.
And yeah, I was like, something

1112
00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:28,880
is wrong.
And I was like, excuse me,

1113
00:58:28,880 --> 00:58:30,800
something is wrong.
And they were like, no, you're

1114
00:58:30,800 --> 00:58:33,000
fine.
It's you just gave birth.

1115
00:58:33,000 --> 00:58:35,200
You're fine.
Like, oh, first moms, yeah, so

1116
00:58:35,200 --> 00:58:38,800
dumb, yes.
That was exactly the mentality.

1117
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:42,880
Not a doctor had come in because
the baby was in distress with

1118
00:58:42,880 --> 00:58:46,000
the heartbeat.
So you know, with midlife,

1119
00:58:46,080 --> 00:58:48,360
midlife, midlife.
No, that would be right now.

1120
00:58:48,360 --> 00:58:51,160
Midwife LED care.
There's always like a doctor on.

1121
00:58:51,160 --> 00:58:54,560
Hall Yeah, just in case.
So the doctor was there and the

1122
00:58:54,720 --> 00:58:59,000
the pain got so bad that I
actually had to take her off and

1123
00:58:59,160 --> 00:59:02,560
give her to her dad because I
was like, I'm, I'm not good.

1124
00:59:02,560 --> 00:59:05,680
Something's wrong.
So he's sitting in a bean bag

1125
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:09,880
just going, Oh my God, she's
smiling like, you know, all

1126
00:59:09,880 --> 00:59:13,240
marvelling at this child.
I'm excuse me, I think I might

1127
00:59:13,240 --> 00:59:17,240
be dying.
God, sorry to disturb you and

1128
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:21,400
all, but it was literally like
that.

1129
00:59:21,960 --> 00:59:24,400
So they told me I had to poop.
What?

1130
00:59:25,040 --> 00:59:26,640
And I was like, this is not a
that's.

1131
00:59:26,720 --> 00:59:27,920
Not poops.
Also I.

1132
00:59:27,920 --> 00:59:30,480
Haven't eaten in like 2 days
because you know like when

1133
00:59:30,480 --> 00:59:33,120
you're in labor, you're, you're
not chowing down like they don't

1134
00:59:33,120 --> 00:59:35,840
let you, at least not here in
case you have to have an

1135
00:59:35,840 --> 00:59:40,520
emergency section or something.
So like, I did not need to poop

1136
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:46,000
and I knew that on honesty, I
kind of thank God that I hadn't

1137
00:59:46,000 --> 00:59:48,360
had an epidural because I wonder
if I would have felt.

1138
00:59:48,720 --> 00:59:51,080
The.
Sensation maybe, maybe not.

1139
00:59:51,080 --> 00:59:54,200
Which kind of then scared me of
having pain relief with the

1140
00:59:54,200 --> 00:59:58,080
other two.
But yeah, they put me on a

1141
00:59:58,080 --> 01:00:00,800
commode.
I was literally going in a night

1142
01:00:00,800 --> 01:00:02,160
of consciousness.
Oh my.

1143
01:00:02,200 --> 01:00:06,640
God, like I would sort of wake
up on my head and you're just

1144
01:00:06,640 --> 01:00:08,920
like, OK, I guess this is
normal.

1145
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,640
Holy shit.
So he lifted me back up again.

1146
01:00:11,640 --> 01:00:15,120
I just remember sort of like
going in and out and everything

1147
01:00:15,120 --> 01:00:19,160
was fuzzy.
And I, I know I'm the woo woo

1148
01:00:19,160 --> 01:00:26,000
person, but like, just somewhere
inside of myself, I just was

1149
01:00:26,000 --> 01:00:28,640
like, you need to push.
You need to keep pushing.

1150
01:00:28,640 --> 01:00:31,080
Yeah.
Like, it felt instinctual.

1151
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:33,600
It just, you know that feeling
when like the baby hits and

1152
01:00:33,600 --> 01:00:36,960
you're like, like I just asked
the midwife, well, how do you

1153
01:00:36,960 --> 01:00:38,840
know you need to push?
And she'd be like, oh, you'll

1154
01:00:38,840 --> 01:00:41,200
know, like you.
That was true, yeah.

1155
01:00:41,480 --> 01:00:45,880
And it was like that.
So, you know, the doctor, the

1156
01:00:45,880 --> 01:00:48,280
midwife, everybody was coming
in, like kind of peering at me

1157
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:50,880
leaving.
And I just lay there and push my

1158
01:00:50,880 --> 01:00:54,640
little heart right and passed a
massive clot.

1159
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:57,360
Oh good Lord.
Like size of your fist, like

1160
01:00:57,400 --> 01:00:59,800
shit, huge.
Wow.

1161
01:00:59,800 --> 01:01:06,960
And it made a sound like, I've
never I'm the midwife and it's

1162
01:01:06,960 --> 01:01:09,320
just kind of a farmer.
Let's be at Saint Ireland.

1163
01:01:09,320 --> 01:01:15,640
She went, oh, that's a whopping
big plot girl instant.

1164
01:01:15,840 --> 01:01:17,480
I sat up.
Where's my baby?

1165
01:01:17,520 --> 01:01:19,880
Oh my goodness.
I felt 100%.

1166
01:01:20,000 --> 01:01:21,480
That's crazy.
It scared the shit.

1167
01:01:21,480 --> 01:01:24,680
Out of me after because I was
like, Oh my God.

1168
01:01:24,680 --> 01:01:28,440
Like, I was like, probably
literally dying there.

1169
01:01:28,840 --> 01:01:29,960
Good Lord.
Yeah.

1170
01:01:29,960 --> 01:01:34,400
And like, I'm sorry.
I credit myself with saving

1171
01:01:34,400 --> 01:01:37,360
myself as as you should.
Because no one else in that

1172
01:01:37,360 --> 01:01:41,440
situation was doing fuck all
that was useful was just yeah.

1173
01:01:41,720 --> 01:01:46,360
Kind of doing anything there.
So that was fun and it, it kind

1174
01:01:46,360 --> 01:01:49,360
of scared me more overtime in
hindsight, if that makes sense,

1175
01:01:49,360 --> 01:01:52,520
when I realized.
And and then, you know, the idea

1176
01:01:52,520 --> 01:01:59,480
came up that my my daughter
actually had a twin because I

1177
01:01:59,480 --> 01:02:02,080
felt like I'd miscarried early
in that pregnancy.

1178
01:02:02,360 --> 01:02:04,520
And yeah, a whole, a whole story
there.

1179
01:02:04,520 --> 01:02:07,920
But yeah, that was my wow first
birth story.

1180
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:09,960
Wow that's crazy.
He's wild.

1181
01:02:10,280 --> 01:02:15,480
OK, so that was a near death
experience #1 and apparently

1182
01:02:15,480 --> 01:02:18,800
there's another one.
You know, it was not nearly as

1183
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:22,280
dramatic.
I in fact it was quite benign.

1184
01:02:23,720 --> 01:02:28,960
When I had my son, it was an
unusually hot day in Belfast.

1185
01:02:29,040 --> 01:02:34,160
So actually your birthday and
his birthday are one day apart.

1186
01:02:34,240 --> 01:02:38,000
Oh amazing.
And so it was just weirdly very

1187
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:39,720
hot.
We don't have ACI.

1188
01:02:39,720 --> 01:02:42,560
Was in a maternity hospital and
I was like I can't breathe.

1189
01:02:44,120 --> 01:02:46,040
I see.
Oh, I guess that's pretty common

1190
01:02:46,040 --> 01:02:48,400
there, isn't it?
Yeah, because you, you don't

1191
01:02:48,400 --> 01:02:51,320
need it because it's
occasionally warm.

1192
01:02:51,560 --> 01:02:55,240
And so yeah, based on what had
happened then I guess they were

1193
01:02:55,240 --> 01:02:57,160
paying attention that time.
They were like, Oh my God, you

1194
01:02:57,160 --> 01:02:59,440
have a blood clot in your lung.
And I was like, do I?

1195
01:02:59,560 --> 01:03:00,880
I don't.
And it was funny.

1196
01:03:00,880 --> 01:03:02,400
It was the opposite.
I was like, I don't think I

1197
01:03:02,400 --> 01:03:03,680
have.
I think I'm just warm.

1198
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:07,440
And they're like, no, you do.
And so I'm like, Oh my God, I'm

1199
01:03:07,440 --> 01:03:14,120
going to fucking die again.
Like it's like, why are people

1200
01:03:14,120 --> 01:03:16,360
having children?
This is ridiculous.

1201
01:03:16,360 --> 01:03:20,080
So did all these heart tests.
They did stuff.

1202
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:23,000
And I was so beside myself at
that point.

1203
01:03:23,000 --> 01:03:25,640
I just wanted to go home.
I was like, so I had to sign

1204
01:03:25,640 --> 01:03:27,720
myself out.
They're like, you're probably

1205
01:03:27,720 --> 01:03:30,720
going to die, but you can leave.
You had to discharge yourself,

1206
01:03:30,720 --> 01:03:33,480
like against medical
instructions or whatever.

1207
01:03:33,560 --> 01:03:37,920
Yeah, it's like they were just
very on alert and it was

1208
01:03:37,920 --> 01:03:40,280
freaking me out, so I just
thought I'd go home and die.

1209
01:03:40,280 --> 01:03:42,240
I don't know.
They want to give me.

1210
01:03:42,960 --> 01:03:45,200
You're like, that's better than
staying in this place with no

1211
01:03:45,200 --> 01:03:47,040
AC.
Seriously, the.

1212
01:03:48,000 --> 01:03:49,960
And I wanted to go home to my
first baby who?

1213
01:03:49,960 --> 01:03:52,760
Was a me too.
You know what's those blood

1214
01:03:52,760 --> 01:03:54,160
thinning injections they give
you?

1215
01:03:56,080 --> 01:04:00,960
Begins with.
B with ABB maybe, maybe I'm

1216
01:04:00,960 --> 01:04:02,880
thinking, I don't know, bromide,
that was to give people

1217
01:04:03,200 --> 01:04:07,320
erections, right?
Infection erection to.

1218
01:04:07,360 --> 01:04:09,600
Suppress erections.
Yes.

1219
01:04:09,760 --> 01:04:14,440
Sorry, Tangent.
Yeah.

1220
01:04:14,440 --> 01:04:16,720
They they wanted to give me
that, but I saw myself.

1221
01:04:16,720 --> 01:04:21,280
I came back the next day for.
They were gonna put the dye in.

1222
01:04:21,720 --> 01:04:22,840
Yeah.
I have blood clots.

1223
01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:24,880
Yeah.
And I was sitting with my little

1224
01:04:24,880 --> 01:04:28,960
baby child in the waiting room
and they were like, there's a

1225
01:04:28,960 --> 01:04:30,800
lot of radiation in here.
You probably shouldn't have your

1226
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:32,000
kid in here.
God.

1227
01:04:32,120 --> 01:04:33,280
And they give me the dye to
drink.

1228
01:04:33,280 --> 01:04:35,440
And I was like, I'm
breastfeeding.

1229
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:37,200
Is that OK?
And they were like, what?

1230
01:04:37,400 --> 01:04:41,160
I was like I'm a woman with a
three day old BB and you didn't

1231
01:04:41,160 --> 01:04:42,640
think this?
Happening.

1232
01:04:42,840 --> 01:04:44,560
Oh my.
God, like, oh, you can't have

1233
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:46,560
that.
Like that would harm the BB.

1234
01:04:46,560 --> 01:04:49,480
I was like, good thing I asked,
Yeah.

1235
01:04:49,480 --> 01:04:52,240
And at that point I just said
fuck it, I'm going home.

1236
01:04:52,240 --> 01:04:54,720
Yeah, we'll just see what
happens if I get.

1237
01:04:55,480 --> 01:04:59,080
Sore legs or something
indicative of that happens.

1238
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:02,280
I will come back but like.
Wow, that's crazy.

1239
01:05:02,280 --> 01:05:05,640
So it was kind of a fake near
death experience because there

1240
01:05:05,640 --> 01:05:08,720
actually wasn't anything wrong.
So when there was, they didn't

1241
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,840
do anything and when there
wasn't there like you're going

1242
01:05:10,840 --> 01:05:12,000
to die.
Perfect.

1243
01:05:12,280 --> 01:05:14,080
Perfect.
Yep, that sounds right.

1244
01:05:14,080 --> 01:05:15,480
That tracks.
Yeah, Yeah.

1245
01:05:15,560 --> 01:05:16,840
Last one was super
straightforward.

1246
01:05:16,840 --> 01:05:18,840
She literally shot out in 20
minutes.

1247
01:05:20,120 --> 01:05:21,760
They lost my underwear on my
pants.

1248
01:05:22,400 --> 01:05:26,000
They did.
They never find them because

1249
01:05:26,040 --> 01:05:28,600
they like checked me and they're
like, oh, you're like 2cm.

1250
01:05:28,600 --> 01:05:30,120
And I was like, what the hell
though?

1251
01:05:30,120 --> 01:05:32,120
Like this is this baby is almost
here.

1252
01:05:33,480 --> 01:05:36,600
And my water broke and I was
like, excuse me, the baby's

1253
01:05:36,600 --> 01:05:38,320
coming out.
And they were like, don't be

1254
01:05:38,320 --> 01:05:40,240
ridiculous.
And then they were like, oh

1255
01:05:40,240 --> 01:05:44,760
shit, what the head is is like.
So they put me in a wheelchair

1256
01:05:44,760 --> 01:05:45,520
and.
Ran.

1257
01:05:45,520 --> 01:05:49,680
Oh my God, that's so funny.
Pence, like underwear, came off.

1258
01:05:49,720 --> 01:05:52,320
Never, never find them.
Well, maternity underwear.

1259
01:05:52,320 --> 01:05:54,040
Probably not the biggest.
Loss, not hot.

1260
01:05:54,040 --> 01:05:56,600
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Wild.

1261
01:05:57,280 --> 01:05:59,320
Oh my God, we're only at birth
and.

1262
01:05:59,480 --> 01:06:01,320
And we're like, we're clearly
not good.

1263
01:06:01,480 --> 01:06:04,040
So we're going to have to cut
this somewhat short.

1264
01:06:04,040 --> 01:06:06,040
But, you know, hopefully we'll
be doing this next year.

1265
01:06:06,040 --> 01:06:08,920
We can talk more about Mother's
Day.

1266
01:06:08,920 --> 01:06:10,880
But yeah.
How do you celebrate?

1267
01:06:11,600 --> 01:06:15,000
Oh, well, that's a great
question, isn't it?

1268
01:06:16,480 --> 01:06:20,440
I I don't think that celebrating
that has been a big feature of

1269
01:06:20,440 --> 01:06:23,280
my life at any point.
So sorry.

1270
01:06:23,800 --> 01:06:29,560
Yeah, it was, I think assumed by
my ex partner that it wasn't a

1271
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:32,280
big deal to me.
Or maybe that was just easier

1272
01:06:32,280 --> 01:06:35,120
for him.
So there was really no

1273
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:40,480
celebration happening.
Our current custody schedule, he

1274
01:06:40,480 --> 01:06:43,560
has scheduled himself to have my
child on Mother's Day every

1275
01:06:43,560 --> 01:06:44,720
year.
Makes so much sense.

1276
01:06:46,800 --> 01:06:49,160
Yeah.
Now I mean, to be fair, one of

1277
01:06:49,160 --> 01:06:51,560
those four years I did have a
trip over that time.

1278
01:06:51,560 --> 01:06:56,000
So that one we will give him the
other three since he sets the

1279
01:06:56,000 --> 01:06:56,800
schedule.
He is.

1280
01:06:56,920 --> 01:06:59,280
He is reserved Mother's Day for
himself.

1281
01:06:59,360 --> 01:07:01,320
Yes.
Well, OK, cool.

1282
01:07:02,480 --> 01:07:07,280
So which, I mean, of course I
could countermand, right.

1283
01:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,880
But like also sometimes you're
like, well, yeah, pick your

1284
01:07:10,880 --> 01:07:12,360
battles, right.
Exactly.

1285
01:07:12,360 --> 01:07:14,160
Yeah.
You're you're 'cause you know,

1286
01:07:14,640 --> 01:07:18,040
you're like I have Mother's Day
every day with this wonderful.

1287
01:07:18,360 --> 01:07:19,360
Humor.
Yeah.

1288
01:07:19,600 --> 01:07:21,040
Yeah, I do.
And you have.

1289
01:07:21,080 --> 01:07:24,640
Such Mother's Day.
A good relationship with your WE

1290
01:07:24,640 --> 01:07:26,920
BB.
Child, he's the best, I really

1291
01:07:26,920 --> 01:07:30,080
do.
He is so lovely and I love

1292
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:33,040
seeing the relationship you have
with him 'cause you are such a

1293
01:07:33,040 --> 01:07:34,880
good mom.
This is where I'm going to cry

1294
01:07:34,880 --> 01:07:36,320
again.
You're so sweet.

1295
01:07:36,320 --> 01:07:40,840
Nobody like you really are.
You are a good mom because you

1296
01:07:40,840 --> 01:07:45,400
know your kid is rooted in
feeling safe and loved and

1297
01:07:46,200 --> 01:07:49,120
taking care of in all of the
ways.

1298
01:07:49,120 --> 01:07:53,680
But most importantly, he knows
he's seen and valued as a human.

1299
01:07:53,720 --> 01:07:56,360
And it's so visible when I look
at you both.

1300
01:07:56,360 --> 01:07:58,520
So good job.
You thank you.

1301
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:00,560
You're done good and you're
doing good.

1302
01:08:00,560 --> 01:08:02,360
Thank you.
Good job to you too.

1303
01:08:02,760 --> 01:08:04,880
Let me ask maybe just one more
question.

1304
01:08:05,240 --> 01:08:08,400
Did you read any parenting books
or did you have any school of

1305
01:08:08,400 --> 01:08:12,240
parenting that you were trying
to follow with 1-2 or all three

1306
01:08:12,240 --> 01:08:17,640
of your your Bebes?
You know, I, I wish I could say

1307
01:08:17,680 --> 01:08:20,279
yes.
I think I read that Like what to

1308
01:08:20,279 --> 01:08:21,960
expect when you're expecting
that?

1309
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:23,200
Book is kind of garbage.
Isn't it?

1310
01:08:23,399 --> 01:08:27,760
I just, I was like, I don't feel
like this is helpful

1311
01:08:28,080 --> 01:08:32,120
necessarily, but and of course
the Internet wasn't around in

1312
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:37,319
those days, right?
So I yeah, I didn't.

1313
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:39,040
I mean, that's not even a
parenting book, That's a

1314
01:08:39,040 --> 01:08:41,279
pregnancy book.
True, but I think it does have

1315
01:08:41,279 --> 01:08:44,960
some things about a little bit.
Yeah.

1316
01:08:44,960 --> 01:08:48,840
I skimmed that book and I feel
like there was some mom shaming

1317
01:08:48,840 --> 01:08:52,359
happening.
It's been a while maybe I don't

1318
01:08:52,359 --> 01:08:53,960
remember right.
So how?

1319
01:08:53,960 --> 01:08:56,520
Do you feel like a terrible
mother before you even become?

1320
01:08:57,359 --> 01:09:00,240
Exactly, you're doing it all
wrong.

1321
01:09:00,240 --> 01:09:05,760
Yes, Yeah, Yeah, I did.
You know, I just, I think I

1322
01:09:05,760 --> 01:09:09,800
maybe straddle to eras of
mothering where, you know, I

1323
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,800
think we sort of went to this
stage of like over scheduling

1324
01:09:13,800 --> 01:09:17,920
kids and, you know, all these
very intentional approaches,

1325
01:09:17,920 --> 01:09:21,399
which I don't think are all bad
because, you know, probably in

1326
01:09:21,399 --> 01:09:24,600
our generation we didn't have a
lot of intentional parenting at

1327
01:09:24,600 --> 01:09:27,240
all, but.
You know, they're basically

1328
01:09:27,240 --> 01:09:29,040
feral.
Yeah, Go outside.

1329
01:09:29,040 --> 01:09:33,279
Come back at 8:00 PM, you know,
and we sort of swung I think to

1330
01:09:33,279 --> 01:09:35,240
the other side.
Maybe a middle place is good,

1331
01:09:35,240 --> 01:09:39,960
but I, I don't know.
I not even consciously, I just,

1332
01:09:40,560 --> 01:09:46,800
yeah, I didn't, I didn't have
any sort of guidebooks or things

1333
01:09:46,800 --> 01:09:49,560
in mind.
I think things came to me as I

1334
01:09:50,040 --> 01:09:52,720
got older.
I think there's a really did you

1335
01:09:52,720 --> 01:09:55,160
have this just like complete
panic when you had little,

1336
01:09:55,160 --> 01:09:57,560
little kids that you were like
going to die and leave them?

1337
01:09:57,840 --> 01:10:00,080
Yes.
Like I think that's universal

1338
01:10:00,080 --> 01:10:02,280
and kind of nobody.
Tells you that and it and it did

1339
01:10:02,280 --> 01:10:04,240
almost happen actually.
Oh my God, I'm going to save

1340
01:10:04,240 --> 01:10:07,760
that story.
That is full episode story on so

1341
01:10:07,760 --> 01:10:11,000
many levels, and I'm so glad
that you're sitting across to me

1342
01:10:11,000 --> 01:10:12,280
here.
Thank you.

1343
01:10:12,520 --> 01:10:15,560
But it's it's it's a very all
consuming like fear.

1344
01:10:15,560 --> 01:10:19,080
So I'm so sorry.
I don't know how I got from

1345
01:10:19,080 --> 01:10:20,840
there to.
Did you the parenting approach?

1346
01:10:20,840 --> 01:10:24,240
Well, let me just say this and I
it might land for you as well.

1347
01:10:24,240 --> 01:10:28,080
I feel like I did not.
I picked up a couple parenting

1348
01:10:28,080 --> 01:10:30,440
books and they all just pissed
me off very quickly.

1349
01:10:30,440 --> 01:10:32,760
Right?
No, yeah.

1350
01:10:33,000 --> 01:10:36,000
The only one I feel like was
pretty valuable was I think it's

1351
01:10:36,000 --> 01:10:39,320
the American Academy of
Pediatrics or, or whatever,

1352
01:10:39,320 --> 01:10:40,560
right?
And it's very matter of fact.

1353
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:41,880
It's like these are the
milestones.

1354
01:10:41,880 --> 01:10:44,280
Like this is what you should
expect to see in normal

1355
01:10:44,280 --> 01:10:46,200
development.
This is what you should be

1356
01:10:46,200 --> 01:10:49,000
doing.
And at every age, like the the

1357
01:10:49,080 --> 01:10:52,000
kind of phrase that stuck out
every age, it was like you

1358
01:10:52,000 --> 01:10:56,800
should be giving your child lots
and lots of physical and verbal,

1359
01:10:57,000 --> 01:11:01,640
like love or whatever affection,
physical and verbal affection.

1360
01:11:01,640 --> 01:11:07,280
And I remember being like, Oh
yeah, I don't really remember

1361
01:11:07,280 --> 01:11:09,800
that being like a strong feature
from my childhood.

1362
01:11:09,800 --> 01:11:13,240
And so like that stuck.
And I think I would have anyway,

1363
01:11:13,240 --> 01:11:16,120
but like, it was just kind of
that idea.

1364
01:11:16,120 --> 01:11:19,160
You cannot spoil a baby.
You cannot spoil a little child,

1365
01:11:19,160 --> 01:11:20,400
right?
You're there to meet their needs

1366
01:11:20,400 --> 01:11:21,760
and show them that they're safe
and loved.

1367
01:11:22,160 --> 01:11:25,960
And I feel like really from that
time till now, I would, if you

1368
01:11:25,960 --> 01:11:28,640
would call it anything, I feel
like you would call it intuitive

1369
01:11:28,640 --> 01:11:31,720
parenting, right?
Like I feel like the the child

1370
01:11:31,720 --> 01:11:34,240
and the relationship, if you
have a good secure relationship,

1371
01:11:34,440 --> 01:11:37,120
tells you what you need to do
and how you need to parent.

1372
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:38,760
Does does that land?
Because I feel like you're a

1373
01:11:38,760 --> 01:11:43,040
very intuitive person.
I think you just give me words

1374
01:11:43,040 --> 01:11:45,720
for what I was trying to say.
There, I love that.

1375
01:11:45,960 --> 01:11:50,920
Because it and also because
they're all so different.

1376
01:11:50,920 --> 01:11:52,640
They all have different needs.
That's.

1377
01:11:52,680 --> 01:11:55,080
Right.
And so it was just kind of a

1378
01:11:55,440 --> 01:11:58,720
what do we do next?
What do we do next?

1379
01:11:58,720 --> 01:12:02,880
Like, you know, like I didn't, I
didn't have a master plan.

1380
01:12:03,800 --> 01:12:07,600
It was just an I think I was
cautious to say it because it's

1381
01:12:07,600 --> 01:12:10,240
signs irresponsible, but I
didn't feel.

1382
01:12:10,240 --> 01:12:12,640
Irresponsible.
No, no, it doesn't sound

1383
01:12:12,640 --> 01:12:15,720
irresponsible at all.
I think that is much better

1384
01:12:15,720 --> 01:12:18,480
because that's coming from an A
real organic place of

1385
01:12:18,480 --> 01:12:21,560
understanding your child and not
trying to follow one of these

1386
01:12:21,560 --> 01:12:24,840
stupid parenting books.
That is like, you must do this

1387
01:12:24,840 --> 01:12:26,280
at this age and you must do
that.

1388
01:12:26,280 --> 01:12:28,960
And like, maybe that works for
some kids, but it's not going to

1389
01:12:28,960 --> 01:12:31,160
work for all kids, right?
So you let them tell you what

1390
01:12:31,160 --> 01:12:34,080
they needed and then you met
their needs, which is amazing

1391
01:12:34,080 --> 01:12:36,200
and you've done it brilliantly.
You can see it in all three of

1392
01:12:36,200 --> 01:12:37,360
your children.
Thank you.

1393
01:12:37,520 --> 01:12:42,920
I mean, I, you know, I have the
moments I'm not proud of.

1394
01:12:43,040 --> 01:12:45,360
I have the moments when I knew
the woman that lived behind me

1395
01:12:45,360 --> 01:12:48,120
heard me shouting across.
The.

1396
01:12:48,200 --> 01:12:51,360
Backyards, definitely those
moments.

1397
01:12:51,360 --> 01:12:59,000
And but I just, you know, I, I
loved, I loved being a mom.

1398
01:12:59,120 --> 01:13:02,400
I just always did.
I, I never felt like I fit the

1399
01:13:02,400 --> 01:13:06,600
mold of the maternally like, you
know, here's all my children

1400
01:13:06,600 --> 01:13:09,960
presented with like little bows
glued to their forehead or

1401
01:13:09,960 --> 01:13:12,080
whatever it is you're supposed
to look like.

1402
01:13:12,080 --> 01:13:16,400
But I just, I always took my
kids like everywhere with me,

1403
01:13:16,880 --> 01:13:21,160
like, and we kind of joke about
it and I am my middle son.

1404
01:13:21,160 --> 01:13:23,400
He's like, well, maybe you
shouldn't have had me watch

1405
01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,400
Hotel Rwanda when I was 7.
Oh good Lord.

1406
01:13:27,600 --> 01:13:31,080
But I was like, OK, son, this is
important when this happens in

1407
01:13:31,080 --> 01:13:34,120
the world, like here are the 10
steps of genocide.

1408
01:13:34,120 --> 01:13:37,160
Like, you know, my goodness,
it's, you know, there were

1409
01:13:37,160 --> 01:13:38,640
lapses in judgement in that
regard.

1410
01:13:38,880 --> 01:13:42,440
You know, and I think they've
all expressed at some point that

1411
01:13:42,440 --> 01:13:46,400
they are grateful for some of
the unorthodox aspects of their

1412
01:13:46,440 --> 01:13:51,560
childhood in in some ways.
But I just loved hanging out

1413
01:13:51,560 --> 01:13:54,720
with them.
And I see that with with your

1414
01:13:54,720 --> 01:13:56,240
son too.
Oh my goodness, yeah.

1415
01:13:56,240 --> 01:13:59,000
Just like, come with us, like be
here.

1416
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,000
I think the result, you know, I
had this idea that parenting

1417
01:14:02,000 --> 01:14:08,120
meant like, you know, just just
doing these prescribed things

1418
01:14:08,120 --> 01:14:11,680
that didn't necessarily make
sense for me or my kids, You

1419
01:14:11,680 --> 01:14:14,600
know.
And obviously I moved to America

1420
01:14:14,600 --> 01:14:20,160
when my kids were 96 and two and
I had no family and I didn't

1421
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:23,360
obviously trust anybody enough
to leave my kids with them for

1422
01:14:23,360 --> 01:14:26,720
like 2 straight years.
So they just came everywhere

1423
01:14:26,720 --> 01:14:28,760
with me all the time.
So good for them.

1424
01:14:28,800 --> 01:14:30,000
I don't regret it.
Yeah.

1425
01:14:30,480 --> 01:14:32,480
I mean.
I'm sure it was hard and to not

1426
01:14:32,520 --> 01:14:33,600
get a break.
Yeah.

1427
01:14:34,680 --> 01:14:37,240
But I think that has a lot to do
with a dynamic with your

1428
01:14:37,240 --> 01:14:38,360
partner.
Yeah, he.

1429
01:14:39,720 --> 01:14:44,320
Worked 98% of the time, yeah.
So.

1430
01:14:44,320 --> 01:14:45,560
Understood.
Yeah.

1431
01:14:45,840 --> 01:14:49,120
And so you're like, oh, I guess,
I guess we're just, you know,

1432
01:14:49,320 --> 01:14:52,600
it's just me and and the kiddo
or kids and.

1433
01:14:52,880 --> 01:14:55,640
But actually no regrets there.
Same.

1434
01:14:56,480 --> 01:14:59,920
Yeah.
Amazing, exhaustive, but also

1435
01:15:00,560 --> 01:15:03,640
it's forges a pretty solid.
It really does.

1436
01:15:03,680 --> 01:15:06,760
And I think your kids are like
mine where like I just enjoy

1437
01:15:06,920 --> 01:15:09,000
being with them.
I just enjoy spending time and I

1438
01:15:09,000 --> 01:15:11,920
always did, you know, sometimes
you get tired, but like I was

1439
01:15:11,920 --> 01:15:14,320
never like, oh, I'm tired of my
child and I don't want to be

1440
01:15:14,320 --> 01:15:16,160
around him.
You're just like never nap

1441
01:15:16,160 --> 01:15:17,760
together.
Can we sink our nap?

1442
01:15:17,920 --> 01:15:21,720
Like maybe go to sleep so I can
sleep too, but you know, like

1443
01:15:21,720 --> 01:15:23,440
not because I want to be away
from you.

1444
01:15:23,560 --> 01:15:26,720
Yep.
Yeah, 100% and I still feel that

1445
01:15:26,720 --> 01:15:30,000
way.
I like, I was just running

1446
01:15:30,000 --> 01:15:35,200
errands on Sunday and it, you
know, it makes me so happy

1447
01:15:35,200 --> 01:15:39,080
because it's my baby.
Actually, tomorrow is 21.

1448
01:15:39,080 --> 01:15:44,080
Which is.
Staggering and oldest baby flew

1449
01:15:44,080 --> 01:15:48,400
from Ireland, middle baby flew
from Salt Lake and they are all

1450
01:15:48,400 --> 01:15:52,360
with her in Chicago and it makes
my Mama heart like the happiest

1451
01:15:52,360 --> 01:15:54,000
thing ever.
And.

1452
01:15:54,520 --> 01:15:56,120
You know, would I love to be
there too?

1453
01:15:56,120 --> 01:16:02,240
Yes, and it's a sibling trip and
one that I'm so grateful for it

1454
01:16:02,240 --> 01:16:05,560
like to see the the bond that
they all have with each other.

1455
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:10,760
And you know, I where I'm going
with this is it was doing these

1456
01:16:10,760 --> 01:16:12,560
errands since Sunday was
actually getting stuff to put in

1457
01:16:12,560 --> 01:16:14,800
a package to to mail to her for
her birthday.

1458
01:16:15,160 --> 01:16:17,040
And I was, I was just a little
melancholy.

1459
01:16:17,160 --> 01:16:18,520
You know, like, oh, I missed
the.

1460
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:24,160
Babies and like, you know,
you're like, every day felt like

1461
01:16:24,160 --> 01:16:26,720
they were never going to grow up
and get old.

1462
01:16:26,840 --> 01:16:28,320
Yeah.
And then all of a sudden.

1463
01:16:28,360 --> 01:16:31,040
There they are.
You're not kid busy anymore.

1464
01:16:31,040 --> 01:16:34,920
And it's kind of like sad, like
there's a good part to it, but

1465
01:16:35,680 --> 01:16:37,720
it's it's your identity for so
long.

1466
01:16:37,720 --> 01:16:39,800
And then you just actually
missed them.

1467
01:16:40,400 --> 01:16:42,440
Yeah, because they are fun to
hang out with.

1468
01:16:42,480 --> 01:16:46,120
And I I saw this item in a store
and I was like, oh, I have to

1469
01:16:46,120 --> 01:16:48,280
remember that for this child for
like Christmas.

1470
01:16:48,560 --> 01:16:51,240
Like, I know it's only, you
know, the start of the year, but

1471
01:16:51,240 --> 01:16:54,400
thinking ahead.
And then I had this, remember

1472
01:16:54,400 --> 01:16:57,200
and said I think they're all
going to be home for Christmas

1473
01:16:57,200 --> 01:17:00,040
this year.
That's wonderful.

1474
01:17:00,040 --> 01:17:02,400
So excited.
That is wonderful.

1475
01:17:02,400 --> 01:17:05,280
So like to your point, they're
just really good to hang out

1476
01:17:05,280 --> 01:17:06,560
with and.
Yeah.

1477
01:17:06,920 --> 01:17:08,960
It's it's, it's great when
you're all together.

1478
01:17:09,200 --> 01:17:11,880
Well, I just had two thoughts
while you were sharing that, and

1479
01:17:11,880 --> 01:17:13,240
I'm cheering up a little bit
too.

1480
01:17:14,200 --> 01:17:17,360
Thought #1 is like how beautiful
that you've fostered this like

1481
01:17:17,360 --> 01:17:20,680
loving little family where they
all want to be together like as

1482
01:17:20,680 --> 01:17:23,120
siblings.
And I'm sure that even though

1483
01:17:23,120 --> 01:17:25,160
it's kind of hard to be away
from them, that must give you

1484
01:17:25,160 --> 01:17:28,000
like so much hope and optimism
for the the future, right?

1485
01:17:28,040 --> 01:17:29,360
I mean.
They have each.

1486
01:17:29,400 --> 01:17:31,240
Other they have each other, of
course, we're planning to be

1487
01:17:31,240 --> 01:17:34,600
around for a good long while.
But yes, yes, you know, whether

1488
01:17:34,600 --> 01:17:37,040
you're around or not, just the
fact that they have those

1489
01:17:37,040 --> 01:17:40,440
sibling relationships is just
that's a beautiful, beautiful

1490
01:17:40,440 --> 01:17:41,400
thing.
I love that for them.

1491
01:17:41,400 --> 01:17:44,560
That is, you know, one thing
that my child does not have

1492
01:17:44,560 --> 01:17:48,680
because he is an only, but you
know, he's got other

1493
01:17:48,680 --> 01:17:51,040
relationships that I hope can
sort of stand in for that

1494
01:17:51,040 --> 01:17:52,760
sibling relationship.
But that's that's really

1495
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:55,400
beautiful.
And then the other thought I had

1496
01:17:55,560 --> 01:17:59,560
is you are going to need to help
me in a couple of years because

1497
01:17:59,840 --> 01:18:02,640
my world is going to fall apart
when my baby child goes to

1498
01:18:02,640 --> 01:18:06,600
college.
So I need you to midwife me, if

1499
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:11,560
you will, went to the stage of
empty nesting because it's it's

1500
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:13,320
going to be a grieving process
for sure.

1501
01:18:13,960 --> 01:18:15,040
I got you, girl.
Yeah.

1502
01:18:15,040 --> 01:18:17,000
And I will.
I'm just going to come over the

1503
01:18:17,000 --> 01:18:21,800
big blanket.
And yes, it really is.

1504
01:18:21,800 --> 01:18:24,560
And, you know, maybe this is a
future episode talking about

1505
01:18:24,560 --> 01:18:28,160
those transitions because, you
know, there's so much that

1506
01:18:28,160 --> 01:18:30,960
people talk about with
parenthood, but I don't know if

1507
01:18:30,960 --> 01:18:34,840
it's always like the quote UN
quote right things, you know,

1508
01:18:35,240 --> 01:18:38,240
because it's there's always this
narrative like get them out of

1509
01:18:38,240 --> 01:18:39,080
the house.
I.

1510
01:18:39,160 --> 01:18:41,240
Hate that narrative.
I don't like it because.

1511
01:18:41,800 --> 01:18:48,000
There is a grief like I when I
drop my youngest off to school I

1512
01:18:48,800 --> 01:18:52,640
I came home and literally like
wandered around the house for

1513
01:18:52,640 --> 01:18:54,160
like 3 days.
Just one.

1514
01:18:54,160 --> 01:18:55,880
What just happened?
Like.

1515
01:18:56,600 --> 01:18:58,800
Didn't I just like bring the
first one home?

1516
01:18:58,800 --> 01:19:02,360
And you, you know, I used to
like almost jump when I walked

1517
01:19:02,360 --> 01:19:04,600
into the living room because I
was like, shit, there's like a

1518
01:19:04,760 --> 01:19:08,520
baby in there.
Like they'd be sitting in there,

1519
01:19:08,520 --> 01:19:10,240
be binding to each other, and
it'd be like, whoa.

1520
01:19:10,440 --> 01:19:12,640
Like.
I used to worry I'd forget and

1521
01:19:12,640 --> 01:19:14,920
go out and forget to bring them
with me and then put them in the

1522
01:19:14,920 --> 01:19:15,840
car.
Totally.

1523
01:19:16,520 --> 01:19:19,920
And then all of a sudden you've
dropped them off at school.

1524
01:19:19,960 --> 01:19:23,000
And I, I literally didn't know
what to do.

1525
01:19:23,000 --> 01:19:25,800
Yeah.
I just, like, wandered around

1526
01:19:25,800 --> 01:19:28,280
the hide.
Do I sit right?

1527
01:19:28,280 --> 01:19:31,320
Do I take a nap?
Like, what am I supposed to do

1528
01:19:31,320 --> 01:19:33,320
now?
And then groceries.

1529
01:19:33,320 --> 01:19:37,400
I couldn't like, just buy
groceries for one person.

1530
01:19:37,400 --> 01:19:40,240
Yeah, that was a weird ass
transition.

1531
01:19:40,360 --> 01:19:43,120
Like, yeah, it's weird.
That's.

1532
01:19:43,160 --> 01:19:45,080
Really hard, yeah.
We should do a whole episode on

1533
01:19:45,080 --> 01:19:48,240
that.
For sure empty nesting all the

1534
01:19:48,240 --> 01:19:50,720
different faces.
God, all the feels and of

1535
01:19:50,720 --> 01:19:53,440
course, you know, we want our
our babies to spread their wings

1536
01:19:53,440 --> 01:19:55,920
and fly away and we would never
clip their little wings.

1537
01:19:55,920 --> 01:19:58,440
But at the same time like yes.
Wow.

1538
01:19:59,480 --> 01:20:01,960
That's just awful to have them
be away at the same time.

1539
01:20:01,960 --> 01:20:04,960
Yeah, it's.
It's like great and terrible all

1540
01:20:04,960 --> 01:20:08,520
at once because yes, like, you
know, you, you'd, you want them

1541
01:20:08,520 --> 01:20:10,000
to thrive.
You want them to be doing

1542
01:20:10,000 --> 01:20:14,880
something that they are so
happy, you know, doing.

1543
01:20:14,880 --> 01:20:18,480
And I try to tell like all of
them have been in different

1544
01:20:18,480 --> 01:20:21,680
places at different times.
And I, I really do make a point

1545
01:20:21,680 --> 01:20:25,840
of saying I am so happy you're
there, you know, because Irish

1546
01:20:25,840 --> 01:20:28,360
people don't do that when you
leave the country, they're like,

1547
01:20:28,360 --> 01:20:31,960
you motherfucker.
Like, so I was like, I'm not

1548
01:20:31,960 --> 01:20:34,360
going to do that because I don't
like how that feels.

1549
01:20:34,880 --> 01:20:40,480
But yeah, it's, it's, it's great
and terrible because it's

1550
01:20:40,480 --> 01:20:42,160
wonderful.
Like to see.

1551
01:20:42,960 --> 01:20:46,200
Oh my God, like that's amazing.
But yeah, come.

1552
01:20:46,280 --> 01:20:50,640
Home, yeah.
Oh, it's good, it's good.

1553
01:20:50,680 --> 01:20:54,360
Well, my friend, we are running
long as we are want to do lately

1554
01:20:54,560 --> 01:20:55,680
we.
Have a lot to.

1555
01:20:55,800 --> 01:20:58,160
Say we have so much to say, I
feel like we could talk about

1556
01:20:58,160 --> 01:21:01,320
this for like 5 days straight
and still not be done 100% so

1557
01:21:01,320 --> 01:21:03,200
maybe we'll do some follow up
episodes.

1558
01:21:03,200 --> 01:21:06,600
But how about to close things
off?

1559
01:21:07,240 --> 01:21:10,240
Do you want to share maybe 1
funny story from childhood?

1560
01:21:10,240 --> 01:21:14,240
Just a light anecdote.
I I was trying to think about

1561
01:21:14,240 --> 01:21:17,760
that earlier today, you know,
all the the funny mishaps of

1562
01:21:17,760 --> 01:21:20,480
parenting.
And yes, I thought of 1 to

1563
01:21:20,480 --> 01:21:25,520
share, given that we kind of,
you know, the ex Mormon vibe to

1564
01:21:25,840 --> 01:21:31,840
I was trying to be a good mother
and we were traveling and the

1565
01:21:32,920 --> 01:21:36,680
the third child had not been
born yet was actually conceived

1566
01:21:36,680 --> 01:21:38,000
on this trip.
TMI and.

1567
01:21:38,320 --> 01:21:41,080
Comment.
For all of my children listening

1568
01:21:41,640 --> 01:21:43,800
earmuffs.
Yes, sorry.

1569
01:21:44,280 --> 01:21:51,640
And we were visiting the Toronto
Temple, the Mormon temple, and

1570
01:21:51,640 --> 01:21:56,160
I'm, you know, children, here is
the temple, the House of the

1571
01:21:56,160 --> 01:21:58,360
Lord.
You know, I'm doing all the the

1572
01:21:58,360 --> 01:22:03,640
mothering things and you know,
families can meet together

1573
01:22:03,640 --> 01:22:05,800
forever.
The whole like Mormon vibe.

1574
01:22:05,880 --> 01:22:08,800
As long as you don't fuck us.
Yeah, I mean, it's very

1575
01:22:08,800 --> 01:22:11,760
precarious.
So you better give lots of your

1576
01:22:11,760 --> 01:22:15,200
money to the church over the
lines, wear that underwear and

1577
01:22:15,200 --> 01:22:16,480
all that stuff.
Yeah.

1578
01:22:16,480 --> 01:22:20,840
So my wee son is 3 at the time,
and we're sitting by the

1579
01:22:20,840 --> 01:22:23,000
fountain.
I I feel like I'm just in a

1580
01:22:23,000 --> 01:22:24,680
magazine, like a church
magazine.

1581
01:22:24,720 --> 01:22:25,640
Yeah.
And.

1582
01:22:25,880 --> 01:22:27,520
You probably looked like it.
Yeah, like.

1583
01:22:27,600 --> 01:22:30,680
This the cute little.
Young, gorgeous family like.

1584
01:22:31,200 --> 01:22:35,080
And he he steps up on the edge
of the fountain, drops his

1585
01:22:35,080 --> 01:22:37,760
shorts, drops his underwear, and
just.

1586
01:22:39,000 --> 01:22:40,160
Pees.
In the fountain.

1587
01:22:40,440 --> 01:22:45,600
But I'm like running and so much
no like as I see people aghast,

1588
01:22:45,600 --> 01:22:48,720
they're like, Oh my God, she
raised a feral child like.

1589
01:22:49,160 --> 01:22:54,240
Like, you know.
And he was a good boy and he oh,

1590
01:22:54,680 --> 01:22:57,280
that's amazing.
Just kids do stuff.

1591
01:22:57,280 --> 01:22:59,680
They they do stuff.
And he heard the water.

1592
01:22:59,680 --> 01:23:02,080
You know how sometimes like you
run the faucet and you're.

1593
01:23:02,080 --> 01:23:03,760
Like, you know what that reminds
me of?

1594
01:23:03,880 --> 01:23:05,960
Yes.
And the poor kid, he was just

1595
01:23:05,960 --> 01:23:08,600
like, Oh my God.
And you know, he didn't just

1596
01:23:08,600 --> 01:23:11,600
stand up and do it like he went
to a receptacle of water and

1597
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,480
thought would be a good.
Idea.

1598
01:23:14,680 --> 01:23:16,320
But.
Yeah.

1599
01:23:16,320 --> 01:23:20,000
That was that was that was a
good kid memory and a sorry, a

1600
01:23:20,000 --> 01:23:22,240
quick other one that's just
religious related.

1601
01:23:22,240 --> 01:23:24,000
I think it's funny.
I will be so quick.

1602
01:23:24,440 --> 01:23:28,680
I was pregnant with my second,
had the first child in the bath.

1603
01:23:28,680 --> 01:23:31,480
It's the night before Easter and
I'm like, yeah.

1604
01:23:31,480 --> 01:23:36,680
And then Jesus rose again after
the third day and, you know, I'm

1605
01:23:36,680 --> 01:23:39,040
telling her the whole Easter
story, yes.

1606
01:23:39,400 --> 01:23:41,400
And she's just staring at me
blankly.

1607
01:23:41,400 --> 01:23:46,280
And she's 2 years old.
And re our earlier point where

1608
01:23:46,280 --> 01:23:49,600
we're like, they're just like,
she was born 40 years old.

1609
01:23:49,680 --> 01:23:54,040
Was always just very skeptical.
Like, you'd be like, oh, is that

1610
01:23:54,040 --> 01:23:55,440
your BB?
And she'd be like, no, it's a

1611
01:23:55,440 --> 01:23:56,640
doll.
Like what?

1612
01:23:56,760 --> 01:24:00,080
No sense of irony.
Like just, yeah, it's just funny

1613
01:24:00,080 --> 01:24:01,840
because she's a writer.
Stupid question.

1614
01:24:03,080 --> 01:24:07,480
And so I tell her the Jesus
story and she just goes, mummy,

1615
01:24:07,760 --> 01:24:14,240
you shouldn't tell lies.
I was like my child, Damien.

1616
01:24:14,440 --> 01:24:16,640
Like what?
Oh my God, that's amazing.

1617
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:19,920
So my children were always,
yeah, religiously skeptical,

1618
01:24:19,920 --> 01:24:21,000
apparently.
Amazing.

1619
01:24:21,040 --> 01:24:23,360
Both of those were like
foreshadowing of things to come,

1620
01:24:23,360 --> 01:24:26,480
I guess.
They they were, But what about

1621
01:24:26,480 --> 01:24:29,160
you?
Any funny funny kid stories you

1622
01:24:29,240 --> 01:24:31,400
remember?
I have many, but kind of on the

1623
01:24:31,400 --> 01:24:34,360
same vein of peeing that
reminded me of a different 1.

1624
01:24:34,360 --> 01:24:37,040
So I'll just, I'll tell this one
because it was pretty funny.

1625
01:24:37,520 --> 01:24:42,680
So when my baby was 5, we went
to Hawaii.

1626
01:24:42,760 --> 01:24:45,280
Yeah.
And we were at this like big one

1627
01:24:45,280 --> 01:24:50,200
of those big Hawaiian resorts,
many pools, like a lagoon,

1628
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:52,880
etcetera.
And at one point he needed to

1629
01:24:52,880 --> 01:24:55,560
use the bathroom.
So I took him to the women's

1630
01:24:55,680 --> 01:24:57,480
restroom, right as you do when
they're little.

1631
01:24:58,000 --> 01:25:01,360
And I walked in and like there,
there was a line, OK, a lot of

1632
01:25:01,360 --> 01:25:02,840
people needing to use that
restroom.

1633
01:25:02,840 --> 01:25:05,720
Lot of people there.
There were probably 12 or 14

1634
01:25:05,720 --> 01:25:09,120
stalls on either side, a line of
women waiting, some of them with

1635
01:25:09,120 --> 01:25:10,560
kids in tow, but mostly just
women.

1636
01:25:11,200 --> 01:25:16,800
And we go into the stall and he
uses the toilet and then I use

1637
01:25:16,800 --> 01:25:21,720
the toilet.
And then my darling child, in a

1638
01:25:21,720 --> 01:25:25,800
voice loud enough to be heard
probably across the entire

1639
01:25:25,800 --> 01:25:31,520
resort, said Mom, I always
wondered how you peed because

1640
01:25:31,520 --> 01:25:34,080
you don't have a penis that I
just watch it.

1641
01:25:34,080 --> 01:25:40,200
And now I understand.
And I could hear all around me

1642
01:25:40,200 --> 01:25:44,920
the entire restroom just fucking
losing it like because everybody

1643
01:25:44,920 --> 01:25:46,960
heard it and everybody was.
And I was laughing too.

1644
01:25:46,960 --> 01:25:49,480
I wasn't even embarrassed.
I'm just like, that is fucking

1645
01:25:49,520 --> 01:25:52,120
hilarious.
So it was a little moment of joy

1646
01:25:52,160 --> 01:25:54,680
for everyone in that restroom
with.

1647
01:25:55,160 --> 01:25:59,960
Us Oh, it's it's like so pure.
I mean like he's so excited.

1648
01:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,800
Oh my God, I see how this works.
That's.

1649
01:26:07,320 --> 01:26:12,200
So isn't that great?
I, I just, I love those moments

1650
01:26:12,200 --> 01:26:15,280
where, you know, he probably did
wonder, but yeah.

1651
01:26:15,560 --> 01:26:17,520
Absolutely.
I mean, he was just this work,

1652
01:26:17,520 --> 01:26:19,040
so excited to.
Share that.

1653
01:26:20,360 --> 01:26:23,560
That is a horrible and was so
funny as many people as it was.

1654
01:26:23,600 --> 01:26:25,640
So funny.
Maybe one of the great things

1655
01:26:25,640 --> 01:26:28,360
about, you know, being in your
30s because I'm like, I'm not

1656
01:26:28,480 --> 01:26:30,000
embarrassed at all.
Like this is just.

1657
01:26:30,160 --> 01:26:32,120
Hilarious.
You're like, that is so cute and

1658
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:33,360
innocent.
I'm like, you're welcome

1659
01:26:33,360 --> 01:26:37,400
everyone in this.
Restroom I know like how many

1660
01:26:37,400 --> 01:26:39,160
people shared that they're like,
oh this.

1661
01:26:39,240 --> 01:26:40,800
Cute kid.
It was amazing.

1662
01:26:41,400 --> 01:26:42,480
So funny.
Yeah.

1663
01:26:43,000 --> 01:26:45,040
And that and that, my friends,
is motherhood.

1664
01:26:45,160 --> 01:26:46,520
Yeah.
There it is.

1665
01:26:47,040 --> 01:26:48,280
To AT.
Yeah, yeah.

1666
01:26:49,720 --> 01:26:51,680
All of it.
Well, all good.

1667
01:26:52,080 --> 01:26:55,240
Should we say goodbye?
We shall say goodbye, wish all

1668
01:26:55,240 --> 01:26:59,760
our moms well, get a nap.
Yep look after your we selves.

1669
01:26:59,840 --> 01:27:01,240
Yep, some self.
Too.

1670
01:27:01,640 --> 01:27:03,120
Yeah, whether you're a mom or
not.

1671
01:27:03,120 --> 01:27:04,720
Yep.
Yep, we love you.

1672
01:27:04,760 --> 01:27:08,080
So salty hoes.
Have a Happy Mother's Day.

1673
01:27:08,120 --> 01:27:11,000
Yes, salty Bros, take care of
the women in your life.

1674
01:27:11,000 --> 01:27:15,440
Yes, could be your mom, your
sister, anybody, but just be

1675
01:27:15,440 --> 01:27:19,120
very kind today in particular
always, but especially today.

1676
01:27:19,600 --> 01:27:21,920
All right, we've had a great
time sharing our stories of

1677
01:27:21,920 --> 01:27:24,320
motherhood with you.
I'm sure we have many, many more

1678
01:27:24,320 --> 01:27:26,160
that you'll get to hear if you
keep listening.

1679
01:27:26,160 --> 01:27:28,280
Yes.
So if you like this episode, you

1680
01:27:28,280 --> 01:27:30,320
know the drill.
Five star rating, review

1681
01:27:30,600 --> 01:27:33,840
comment, etcetera.
Follow all the things.

1682
01:27:33,840 --> 01:27:35,680
All the things.
Hit all the buttons, yeah.

1683
01:27:36,240 --> 01:27:37,320
That's right, just mash them
all.

1684
01:27:37,560 --> 01:27:42,280
All of them.
I feel a a dirty joke coming,

1685
01:27:42,280 --> 01:27:44,760
but seeing it's about
motherhood, I'll, I'll resist.

1686
01:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,200
Are you sure about smashing
buttons?

1687
01:27:47,200 --> 01:27:52,320
Yes, on that note.
Where do babies come from?

1688
01:27:52,480 --> 01:27:55,800
I'm just kidding.
All right, friends, we're

1689
01:27:55,800 --> 01:27:57,520
signing off now.
Take care.

1690
01:27:57,600 --> 01:27:59,160
See you soon.
Bye.