MomTok Update: We Hope DadTok Doesn't Survive This

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Hey everyone, I'm Mel.
And I'm Claire.

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And together, we are the salty
hoes.

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Welcome back, everyone.
So we are coming at you from

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deep behind the Zion curtain.
We are coming at you from deep

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within the dungeon of the Salt
Lake Library.

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We are in a a dark hole, quite
literally today it's.

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Actually kind of giving me
anxiety.

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Yes, we're trying to like
breathe through this, so I think

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once we start talking more,
relax into it.

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But we will post a picture of
the very tiny, sweaty box that

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we're currently sitting.
In yeah, it is a sweat box for

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sure.
At least I'm in here with you

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and not someone else that is
making it slightly more

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tolerable.
Yes.

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And we're both clean and
showered, yeah.

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And that's definitely helping, I
think there.

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Are no shitty pants to be found
anywhere in this just little

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tiny sound booth?
This is good.

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All right, so today we're going
to be talking about Dad talk.

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But first, we got to update you
really quickly because just a

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couple of days ago we were at
the Tanner Humanities Center.

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We were.
It was very fancy, it was.

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Very fancy.
The organizers did such a good

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job.
It was amazing.

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Yeah.
What a fun day.

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So huge shout out to everyone
that worked on that.

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It was so good.
So amazing and it was the

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perfect blend of like academic
inquiry, scholarship and just

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pure fun.
Amazing.

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So much fun.
Our talk went over really well.

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We'll give you some more deets
on that a little bit later, but

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we did just want to say we're
still coming off that amazing

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high of presenting.
And then something else crazy

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happened that day.
On the same day.

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Same day.
It was like the stars were

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aligned.
It was honestly just an

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incredible day and I think
you're right, we're still like

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processing and we're going to
sign so fangirly, but I don't

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care.
I don't care either because I am

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genuinely A fangirl and I'm even
more now.

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Oh 100%.
But we have a very, very special

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photograph to share with
everybody this week because we

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bumped into a certain someone on
9th and 9th.

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Yep, someone that we have been
watching for quite some time and

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who we both absolutely adore.
Yep, you drum roll, drum.

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Roll.
And that would be the beautiful

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Whitney Wild Rose.
Oh my God.

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It was amazing and she is such a
lovely.

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Human.
She was so kind, she was so

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gracious.
She chatted with us for a bit

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and it was.
Just lovely, she was so chatty

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and we got a great picture,
although slightly elongated

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picture.
There's some photography issues

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perhaps?
But but we don't care.

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Yeah, we don't care anyway.
She could not have been more

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gracious.
She was really lovely and I

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mostly just stood in the
background trying to breathe

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because I knew that my words
would not really probably come

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out in a really coherent way and
I would fangirl and embarrass

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everybody.
So Mel did a great job.

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Thank you.
And also, I just feel like she

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seems so real and authentic.
Like I feel like the Whitney we

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see on the show, especially like
the Whitney who's like really

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like in herself, you know what I
mean, Is like the real person.

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So that's so cool to see.
There was like, no, yeah,

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discrepancy or front.
And she was like quite

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vulnerable even I would say in
our conversation.

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Like she wasn't projecting as
like, perfect or you know.

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Not at all.
She was just like there just

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like being a real person in the,
you know what, 5 to 10 minutes

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that we chatted.
She was so great.

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And she was like, yeah,
sometimes they like kind of give

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me a weird edit.
She's like, I give them a lot to

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work with, though.
And we were like, yeah, that's

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because you're real.
Yeah.

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And we appreciate it. 100% and
she looks so cute too.

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Beautiful like.
So beautiful.

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It was such an amazing day.
We were just like, wow, all

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things Real Housewife are just
just yeah, everywhere.

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Today, Claire, it's almost
making me believe in like

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astrology and all your woo woo
woo stuff.

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I love it.
You're coming over to the dark

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side.
Right.

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Literally.
Which is really.

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The light side.
But yeah, that didn't make any

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sense.
But you know what I mean?

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It's it's a good place to be
you.

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Know what?
Someday we'll have a whole

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episode about astrology and you
can, you know, school me and

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some stuff.
That would be amusing.

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I love the woo woo because
really, is it any different from

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believing that 2 white men came
down from the sky and told a 14

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year old white boy that he was
the master leader of a new

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thing?
I mean, it's not really any

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different.
It's not any different.

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But like The thing is, I don't
really believe in either one.

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I know, but anyway we can get
into it You're.

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Like that is a whole other
conversation.

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But yeah, I mean that more
directed to like say religious

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people that would be critical of
like astrology or I mean like

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things connected to the Earth
for I mean they are millennia

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old so.
Sure, like they have no ground

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to stand on to criticize their
definitely.

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Not.
All right, well, let's table

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that for now.
Yes, if we get into no, but I

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really do want to like dive into
that at some point.

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But today we have a different
topic to dive into.

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Very important.
Yeah, maybe much less pleasant

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than we're going to do it.
So, Claire, what are we talking

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about today?
Today we are talking about dad

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talk, yes, and unlike mom talk
that we hope will survive, we

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really hope that dad talk won't
survive because it's it's an

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abomination to use religious or
not that.

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I love that you said that.
And it's also like completely

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mooching off of the success of
the women because a common

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narrative that I hear between
divorced friends or more so from

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men, you know, this negative
narrative around, Oh, my ex-wife

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took everything like all my
money.

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Oh my God, right.
Like we are no stranger to this

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phenomena.
No, there are a lot of people

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that we know in that kind of
sort of noise around women and,

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and here we have the complete
flip side of that.

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And it's just so interesting to
see it play out and the

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different standards, shall we
say.

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Yeah.
Do you think it's fair to say I

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already have my answer that dad
talked generally?

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Maybe not every single
individual, but Dad talked

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generally are gold diggers.
I mean, let's just call them

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that.
They are gold diggers.

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Maybe that's not fair because
these people were together

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before the show started, but
wow, their behavior is really

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not wanting to make me give them
a lot of slack to be honest.

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And let's just say it's as fair
as calling a woman a gold

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digger.
Sure, that's supported a man

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through decades of a career and
then all of a sudden she's a

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gold digger.
So it's as fair really if you

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OK.
True.

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So maybe nobody's really a gold
digger.

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Maybe some people are, but maybe
nobody in this situation.

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Yeah, I have.
Go ahead.

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Sorry, I'm like I, I think you
and I both have so many just

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things to say on this.
I think maybe what is a

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different phenomena here that
maybe we don't see on the flip

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side with women is that you have
men complaining that their wife

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is maybe neglectful of the
children or the home or their

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wifely duties and yet they are
enjoying the fruits of the.

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Labour, shall we say?
Yeah, that's really interesting.

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And I think that several of them
might fall into that category

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where in the case of Montauk,
the woman is the one who is the

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star of the show, right?
She's making all the money.

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She's getting the brand deals.
Some of these men, for example,

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Zach, have either, you know, put
their career on hold or decided

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to maybe not do the career they
had in mind in order to support

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their wife.
But that support is a little bit

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of a loaded word, like you said,
when they're complaining about

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it non-stop and they're
complaining about taking on

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caring for the children or the
household maybe.

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But at the same time, it seems
like they all have domestic

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help.
Like they have nannies, right?

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And they have, you know, people
like to clean the house and like

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make the food and all this
stuff.

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And they're still complaining
about this role.

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And I think a lot of that really
has to do with the gender roles

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within Utah and within the LDS
church.

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And now that those have been
turned on their head, these men

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are really, really
uncomfortable.

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And we've talked about that
before.

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And it was kind of an
interesting strand.

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I felt like in the first couple
few seasons of The Secret Lives

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of Mormon Wives.
But now it's really grating and

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irritating me because of, like,
how whiny they're being about

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it.
They're kind of being whiny

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little bitches.
Not all of them.

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Some of them, yeah.
Most of them, I think that's

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fair and I think, you know,
probably most of the world

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agrees with you in what you've
just said.

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And I think, you know, there's
definitely an overwhelming

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responsive just get them off the
TV like we they are obnoxious

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and annoying.
And I think in this series,

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we've seen most of them leave
behind what they did before to

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offer quote UN quote support,
because as you say, like when

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when all the girlies started
like mom talk, you know, they

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were watching the kids full
time.

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Some of them were working full
or part time.

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They were cleaning the house,
making food, like doing all the

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things that typically at some
point, you know, I'm speaking

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from personal experience here,
but I know I'm not alone.

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Where you might try to talk to
your husband, be like, oh, like,

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I'm so tired and I feel a little
worthless, like, you know,

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because it's if you're not
working, you're stay at home

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mom, you're like trying to find
the connection and you're

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feeling of worse.
Not that there's no worse than

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being, like motherhood, but
we're always getting the

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messaging that there's no worth
in motherhood.

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But yet that's also what we're
supposed to do.

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Yeah.
So it's, like, deeply confusing.

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And, you know, the response is
not always helpful, as we've

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seen play out in Dad talk where
it's like, oh, yeah, I hear you,

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but the kids really love you.
And it's just like, branded

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benevolent sexism of, you know,
oh, I hear you.

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But, you know, the kids love
them all more.

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And what are you supposed to do
with that?

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I think you said that so
perfectly.

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Benevolent sexism is something
we're just seeing all the time.

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And I feel like that's something
that we see in some patriarchal

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structures, including sometimes
the LDS church.

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I mean, I'm sure you've heard
many times, probably more than I

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had, because you were in it for
longer, right?

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The stuff from the pulpit, like
a women are just like too good.

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They're too pure.
Like they don't need the

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priesthood because they're
already like so amazing.

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We're the ones that need it
because we're broken.

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But at the same time that allows
them to retain all the power

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within the structure.
And it's such like a Jedi mind

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trick because, yeah, it's like,
but we're being really nice

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here.
We're saying nice things, but

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it's like firmly putting you in
this little corner that you

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can't get out of or you're a bad
mom or a bad wife or, you know,

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my favorite scenario when I was
still in in the club was sitting

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in Relief Society.
And they, you know, invariably

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the lesson would come around
about being a mother or

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something work related.
And I always used to think it

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was like a double insult because
they would say, you know, well,

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I am hashtag blessed to be able
to stay at home full time with

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our children because my husband
earns a lot of money, far I

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know.
And so it was like a double

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insult to women who worked and
also their husband because

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00:12:06,760 --> 00:12:10,000
obviously they were weak and
atrocious and there was no other

229
00:12:10,240 --> 00:12:13,120
reason that a woman wanted to
work outside the home only

230
00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:15,800
because her husband was inept
and not earning enough.

231
00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:19,840
So it was like a double insult.
And I remember like raising my

232
00:12:19,840 --> 00:12:23,960
hand one week and I said, but
but what if you're like, really

233
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:27,480
good at something or, you know,
you've put a lot of time into

234
00:12:27,480 --> 00:12:32,360
education and, and you like,
dare I say it, want to?

235
00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:35,720
And it was just like, Oh my God,
you demon.

236
00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,680
Like crickets?
Yeah.

237
00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:39,720
Tumbleweeds blowing by?
Yeah.

238
00:12:39,720 --> 00:12:41,760
Suddenly bailed.
Waves of hostility.

239
00:12:42,400 --> 00:12:45,840
Sister, that's not an option.
Wow.

240
00:12:46,400 --> 00:12:48,160
Yeah.
Yeah, that's really bad.

241
00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:50,720
It's actually kind of a triple
insult because it's also saying,

242
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,120
like, you weren't good enough to
lock down a man that makes a lot

243
00:12:53,120 --> 00:12:53,920
of money.
Yeah.

244
00:12:54,560 --> 00:12:57,480
Yeah, like me.
Yeah, Who's hashtag blessed

245
00:12:57,640 --> 00:12:59,440
prosperity gospel bullshit,
right?

246
00:12:59,440 --> 00:13:01,000
Yeah.
And it's really weird because

247
00:13:01,000 --> 00:13:03,760
some of us actually do want to
have a professional identity.

248
00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:05,040
Yeah.
I mean, when I was married,

249
00:13:05,040 --> 00:13:06,560
certainly I did not have to
work.

250
00:13:06,600 --> 00:13:09,040
There was no economic reason for
me to do so.

251
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:12,320
But I really wanted to.
I didn't want my PhD to go to

252
00:13:12,320 --> 00:13:14,520
waste.
I wanted to have, like, my own

253
00:13:14,960 --> 00:13:17,000
social and professional
identity.

254
00:13:17,320 --> 00:13:22,520
I wanted to feel fulfilled in
that sphere instead of being

255
00:13:22,520 --> 00:13:24,680
home.
And no shade to someone who use

256
00:13:24,720 --> 00:13:27,080
us to just stay home because
that's what they want to do.

257
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:29,080
I think that's marvelous.
And if you want to do that, do

258
00:13:29,080 --> 00:13:32,720
that.
But I still felt like I had some

259
00:13:32,920 --> 00:13:34,920
professional goals to
accomplish.

260
00:13:35,800 --> 00:13:39,040
Choice it's all dying to choice
right exactly if you want to

261
00:13:39,040 --> 00:13:41,960
stay home, stay home if you want
to stay home for a wee while

262
00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,400
stay home.
If you don't, don't like, it's

263
00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,320
all good, right?
You know, trusting that people

264
00:13:48,320 --> 00:13:52,200
will make the decisions that are
best for them and for their

265
00:13:52,200 --> 00:13:55,240
family.
And actually, nobody needs to

266
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:57,880
endorse.
That yeah, like there's not one

267
00:13:57,920 --> 00:13:59,440
right way.
No SO.

268
00:13:59,880 --> 00:14:01,840
Anyway.
Good times.

269
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:02,440
Good.
Times.

270
00:14:02,640 --> 00:14:03,800
Yay Mormonism.
Yay.

271
00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:06,200
Mormonism.
Well, should we get into some

272
00:14:06,200 --> 00:14:09,280
details of dad talk?
I think we should get into the

273
00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:12,200
nitty gritties.
And I think I want to start with

274
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:16,600
the big one.
OK, I think I want to start with

275
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:17,800
Dakota.
Yep.

276
00:14:17,840 --> 00:14:23,200
And I would like to acknowledge
that your witchy instincts were

277
00:14:23,200 --> 00:14:26,320
quite correct about Dakota.
So we talked about this a few

278
00:14:26,320 --> 00:14:28,520
weeks ago when we did our mom
talk episode.

279
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,440
And you know, I wasn't
contradicting you.

280
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:33,960
I was just saying we don't know.
We've only seen this one thing.

281
00:14:34,200 --> 00:14:35,880
And you were also saying, hey,
we don't know.

282
00:14:35,880 --> 00:14:39,440
But here's my experience.
And this is how it is eerily

283
00:14:39,440 --> 00:14:42,440
reflective of what I'm seeing in
the video and in Taylor, Frankie

284
00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:44,600
Paul.
So kudos to you, my friend.

285
00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,760
Hats off, because now we have
some new information about Mr.

286
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:52,000
Dakota.
Well, I think that our

287
00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:57,120
conversation was great because
we were just, you know,

288
00:14:57,240 --> 00:15:01,480
untangling at all, you know, and
looking at all the the

289
00:15:01,480 --> 00:15:03,320
possibilities and we still don't
know.

290
00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,240
But we have more information,
right?

291
00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,800
And I, oh, sorry, I think we
were clear to say.

292
00:15:08,360 --> 00:15:10,160
So sorry, we're talking over
each other.

293
00:15:10,840 --> 00:15:13,480
Well, honestly, we're in a dark
hole and we can't see each

294
00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,880
other's right, the faces.
Are a little bit occluded more

295
00:15:16,920 --> 00:15:20,120
than normal?
Yeah, I think we were careful to

296
00:15:20,120 --> 00:15:21,720
say, look, we don't know what's
going on.

297
00:15:21,720 --> 00:15:24,560
We know this little piece that
we see and that's still true.

298
00:15:24,560 --> 00:15:27,000
Like now we just have a couple
more pieces of the puzzle.

299
00:15:27,000 --> 00:15:28,280
We still don't know the whole
thing.

300
00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,600
That's that's very true.
And I guess the next big day is

301
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,640
like April 30th, the next
hearing.

302
00:15:35,000 --> 00:15:39,960
But the information that came
out was very interesting and I'm

303
00:15:39,960 --> 00:15:42,880
sure has mirrored many people's
experiences.

304
00:15:42,880 --> 00:15:46,520
I think rarely things happen in
isolation.

305
00:15:46,760 --> 00:15:49,960
So it's not like all of a sudden
she just came out throwing

306
00:15:49,960 --> 00:15:54,160
chairs one day or, you know,
look, she got super drunk this

307
00:15:54,160 --> 00:15:56,920
night.
Like we all have lapses in

308
00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,920
judgement.
Every single person on this

309
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:00,080
earth.
It happens.

310
00:16:00,400 --> 00:16:05,320
And you know, if you have video
footage, it's really easy to

311
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:09,120
highlight, right?
And I don't know what kind of

312
00:16:09,120 --> 00:16:14,320
stuff that Taylor, Frankie Paul
has, but I've always held true

313
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,480
to this idea, which may or may
not be true.

314
00:16:16,480 --> 00:16:20,600
This is just a little Clarism.
But, you know, we've talked

315
00:16:20,600 --> 00:16:22,680
about this before.
There's always, like, a cringe

316
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,600
element when someone is sobbing
and records themselves.

317
00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:30,240
You know, it's like you took
time to put a tripod there to

318
00:16:30,240 --> 00:16:33,440
make sure your home was all, you
know, finessed.

319
00:16:33,480 --> 00:16:36,240
And, you know, maybe those are
very genuine.

320
00:16:36,240 --> 00:16:41,840
Maybe they help people.
Personally I am like, OK, is

321
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:45,120
this performative or are you
actually at a low point?

322
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:51,840
And again, this is my own like
hypothesis here, but I kind of

323
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:57,880
feel like if you are calm enough
and control enough to set up a

324
00:16:58,080 --> 00:17:02,880
recording device, to me that
speaks more of manipulation

325
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,760
versus somebody saying this
thing happened.

326
00:17:05,960 --> 00:17:09,599
And no, I didn't pause to record
it because it was violent and

327
00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:14,720
terrible and awful and I was
maybe scared for my literal life

328
00:17:14,720 --> 00:17:18,040
in that moment or, you know.
Something like that.

329
00:17:18,119 --> 00:17:21,760
Maybe I wasn't actually physical
physically capable of whipping

330
00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:24,040
my phone out because I was being
physically hurt.

331
00:17:24,079 --> 00:17:28,800
Yes, or even if there was no
physical things happening, the

332
00:17:28,800 --> 00:17:33,200
emotional confusion, like one of
the, you know, main

333
00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:38,600
manifestations of emotional
abuse is confusion of like, did

334
00:17:38,600 --> 00:17:40,440
that happen?
What was that like?

335
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:42,520
Oh my goodness.
And then, you know, that's what

336
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,520
wears people dying.
And then sometimes they get to

337
00:17:45,520 --> 00:17:47,680
the point of throwing tears,
which I'm not saying is

338
00:17:47,680 --> 00:17:51,480
justified.
I'm just saying, you know, I

339
00:17:51,480 --> 00:17:55,000
could potentially understand it.
Yeah, or that there could be a

340
00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,400
threat of physical abuse even if
it's not happening in that

341
00:17:57,400 --> 00:17:59,200
moment, right?
Don't you dare take your phone

342
00:17:59,200 --> 00:18:02,840
out or, or something like that.
Claire, I really, really love

343
00:18:02,880 --> 00:18:05,680
and appreciate your analytical
mind cuz you're like, OK, we saw

344
00:18:05,680 --> 00:18:07,400
that, but like, what's the
framing?

345
00:18:07,400 --> 00:18:09,800
What is the context?
So like that did happen.

346
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:12,760
Nobody denies it, but what
happened before, what happened

347
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:16,000
after, like what led up to this?
Like both that day and sort of

348
00:18:16,000 --> 00:18:17,280
as a pattern in the
relationship.

349
00:18:17,880 --> 00:18:22,920
Yeah, that's, you know, because
it just things rarely happen in

350
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:28,080
a vacuum, I think.
And it's really easy to tear

351
00:18:28,080 --> 00:18:30,400
people down, I think, especially
people that are really

352
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:34,080
successful.
And you could argue that she has

353
00:18:34,080 --> 00:18:38,000
always been kind of effortlessly
successful person.

354
00:18:38,000 --> 00:18:40,520
And mom talk, you know, she
doesn't take a lot of the

355
00:18:40,520 --> 00:18:44,640
speaking time.
She's not super glammed up the

356
00:18:44,640 --> 00:18:47,360
way maybe the other women are,
you know, she's usually in

357
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:51,760
sweats and her hair is all a big
Bush and she's still gorgeous.

358
00:18:52,040 --> 00:18:55,200
Yeah, and yet she's the one that
put Montauk on the map, right?

359
00:18:55,200 --> 00:18:57,680
So when Montauk started, that
was really Taylor, Frankie,

360
00:18:57,680 --> 00:18:59,160
Paul.
I mean, Miranda was there too.

361
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:00,320
Some other people were there
too.

362
00:19:00,320 --> 00:19:02,920
But really, the person that made
them all famous was Taylor.

363
00:19:03,160 --> 00:19:05,960
So she's got some smarts in
terms of social media.

364
00:19:06,280 --> 00:19:08,960
Definitely.
And just, you know, pushing the

365
00:19:08,960 --> 00:19:13,600
idea, seeing it through all of
those things.

366
00:19:13,600 --> 00:19:17,360
And, you know, it also just
never added up that we were

367
00:19:17,360 --> 00:19:20,880
seeing them together, which I
think everybody was cringing out

368
00:19:20,880 --> 00:19:23,720
in the most recent season.
They're like, oh, here they are

369
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:25,600
again.
Like back together.

370
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:29,840
Yeah, so much toxicity.
Yeah, and so high then the next

371
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:32,040
week, are you like OK,
restraining order, you know,

372
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,000
it's there, there seems a little
performative element to it.

373
00:19:36,360 --> 00:19:38,040
Yeah.
And the timing element, like we

374
00:19:38,040 --> 00:19:40,640
talked about before, like the
day the video came out, like

375
00:19:40,640 --> 00:19:44,360
that was deliberate, right?
I mean, I think we can probably

376
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,120
say that.
But since we talked last, you

377
00:19:47,120 --> 00:19:50,720
know, like we said, we know now
that Taylor has alleged that

378
00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:53,080
Dakota was physically abusive to
her as well.

379
00:19:53,720 --> 00:19:56,640
She has submitted evidence to
the court of injuries that she

380
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,440
sustained from him slamming her
head against the dashboard of a

381
00:19:59,440 --> 00:20:03,400
car, driving off with her after
she told him not to do that,

382
00:20:03,640 --> 00:20:05,480
kicking her while she was on the
ground.

383
00:20:05,760 --> 00:20:08,240
And apparently, like photos of
her injuries have been submitted

384
00:20:08,240 --> 00:20:09,680
to the court.
And that was since the most

385
00:20:09,680 --> 00:20:12,760
recent hearing.
And none of that is OK.

386
00:20:13,600 --> 00:20:14,560
No.
No.

387
00:20:14,840 --> 00:20:18,680
And, you know, those are only
some of the little Nuggets that

388
00:20:18,680 --> 00:20:22,200
have been shared.
And it kind of makes some of the

389
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:26,480
comments potentially make more
sense to, I think in this past

390
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:30,360
hearing, they talked about how
she had decisively ended the

391
00:20:30,360 --> 00:20:32,240
relationship, I think around
February.

392
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,680
And he had gotten very upset
about that.

393
00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,840
And I remember thinking it was a
little odd in the most recent

394
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,280
series where she was going off
to The Bachelorette.

395
00:20:41,680 --> 00:20:45,640
And obviously, you know, she had
some hesitancy, like she left

396
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:47,920
later than her mom and the
sister and the kids.

397
00:20:47,920 --> 00:20:51,680
And, you know, she got there and
they were faced next timing.

398
00:20:51,680 --> 00:20:55,880
And he was like, well, maybe
like save a rose for me and said

399
00:20:55,880 --> 00:20:57,600
that he loved her.
And she was just kind of like,

400
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,480
OK, and hung up.
And I was like, that's a little

401
00:21:00,480 --> 00:21:03,360
cold.
And then you're like, oh.

402
00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:06,080
OK, there's a reason she's
reacting that way.

403
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:06,600
Yes.
Yeah.

404
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:10,280
Because she'd already told him
it was over and there he is.

405
00:21:10,280 --> 00:21:12,680
Just.
I mean, it's, I'm not a

406
00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:16,760
psychologist, but from what I've
read and I hear, it's classic

407
00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,000
narcissistic behavior to really
act up whenever a good thing is

408
00:21:21,000 --> 00:21:24,280
happening to the person that you
have been abusive to.

409
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,800
Yeah, and that's, you know, well
documented in terms of like even

410
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:35,240
holidays, birthdays or a big
important event happening, you

411
00:21:35,240 --> 00:21:37,400
know, and and he was right on
cue.

412
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:38,840
I mean, it was both those
things, right?

413
00:21:38,840 --> 00:21:41,640
It was one of her child's
birthdays, and it was right as

414
00:21:41,640 --> 00:21:43,120
The Bachelorette was going to
drop.

415
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:45,680
Yep.
He wasn't sending her off with

416
00:21:45,720 --> 00:21:51,240
joy and support, right?
It was coercion and arguably,

417
00:21:51,560 --> 00:21:54,440
you know, emotional abuse.
So that she's walking into it

418
00:21:54,440 --> 00:21:56,120
going, Oh my God, there's still
a chance.

419
00:21:56,480 --> 00:21:58,640
And it can be really hard to end
those relationships.

420
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:01,760
I think a lot of time from the
outside, people will say things

421
00:22:01,760 --> 00:22:04,440
like, well, I would just walk
away if it ever got like that

422
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:06,880
or, you know, I.
Hate it when people say that

423
00:22:06,880 --> 00:22:09,680
because you don't know how you
would react, No, with that whole

424
00:22:09,680 --> 00:22:11,960
history.
And so there's a reason that

425
00:22:12,440 --> 00:22:15,920
people often women, but people
in general leaving abusive

426
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:19,120
relationships, it can take
multiple tries to actually leave

427
00:22:19,120 --> 00:22:21,760
it definitively and for good.
And I think we're seeing that

428
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:24,840
with Taylor A. 100% and
especially where they have a

429
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:28,040
child together, you know it's.
Really hard, yeah.

430
00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,000
And it's again, he is doing that
whole confusing thing because

431
00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:33,560
she's ended it.
And he's like, but, but here's a

432
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:36,600
little crumb.
I want to destabilize you again.

433
00:22:36,600 --> 00:22:39,040
So yeah.
Yeah, and that's a powerful

434
00:22:39,040 --> 00:22:41,400
incentive, right?
Like that fantasy of we can be a

435
00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:43,600
family.
Yeah, that's really powerful.

436
00:22:43,600 --> 00:22:46,720
Yes.
And again, going back to Mormon

437
00:22:46,720 --> 00:22:49,440
conditioning, even though it
seems like Taylor is stepping

438
00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,920
away from that.
And I, it's not like you just

439
00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:54,440
step away and you're like, oh,
I'm completely deprogrammed,

440
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:57,040
right?
Everything is fine, yes.

441
00:22:57,040 --> 00:22:58,560
It's all good I.
Don't have?

442
00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:02,360
Any like trauma to work through?
And it's this idea of like,

443
00:23:02,720 --> 00:23:04,520
well, what would a good mother
do here?

444
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,920
Like a good mother holds family
together, you know, and tries

445
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:13,840
and you know does all the things
and you can't fault her for

446
00:23:13,840 --> 00:23:15,880
trying.
No, I don't fault her for

447
00:23:15,880 --> 00:23:17,480
trying.
Yeah, I really don't.

448
00:23:17,480 --> 00:23:18,880
I have a lot of sympathy for
her.

449
00:23:18,880 --> 00:23:22,080
And I'm not saying that, you
know, she has not done some

450
00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:24,320
abusive things to him like I
think they have.

451
00:23:24,720 --> 00:23:26,920
I think it's a little like we
talked about where we're seeing

452
00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:29,080
abuse from both of them.
We're seeing victimhood from

453
00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,360
both of them.
We can't really assess like

454
00:23:31,360 --> 00:23:33,320
who's more at fault or like,
that's not our job.

455
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:35,440
That's not what we're doing at
all.

456
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:39,560
But one thing that I have
noticed that I really dislike is

457
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,120
I feel like even though they're
both getting criticized, like in

458
00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:46,160
social media and in the media, I
feel like she is bearing the

459
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:50,680
heavier brunt of that.
I think that's so fair and very

460
00:23:50,680 --> 00:23:54,600
blatant as well.
And I think, you know, we talked

461
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:59,760
in a recent episode about
witches and it's it's really

462
00:24:00,120 --> 00:24:04,600
pretty similar in terms of you
were supposed to act this way

463
00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:09,480
and you're not, you know, even
just dying to the basics of

464
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:14,360
like, if a man is aggressive or
angry, it's he's powerful,

465
00:24:14,360 --> 00:24:16,520
right?
And if a woman does it like

466
00:24:16,520 --> 00:24:19,880
she's a shrew and and like
crazy.

467
00:24:20,160 --> 00:24:25,520
And, you know, I think that
particularly powerful women, I

468
00:24:25,520 --> 00:24:27,920
mean, there's data points.
I'm not just like saying, oh,

469
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,680
this is how it looks to me, you
know, from from my vantage

470
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,680
point, but I think there's data
points to show how women are

471
00:24:34,680 --> 00:24:37,320
treated in media versus high
men.

472
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,800
You can look at it with
politicians, You can look at it

473
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:44,440
with actors, you know, and all
these different areas and, you

474
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:47,160
know, yeah.
Women are absolutely crucified

475
00:24:47,160 --> 00:24:51,240
in the court of public opinion
when they deviate from what I

476
00:24:51,240 --> 00:24:53,800
guess society feels like should
be the gender role.

477
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,720
And maybe that happens a little
bit less frequently or to a

478
00:24:57,720 --> 00:25:02,040
lesser degree with men because
in our patriarchal system,

479
00:25:02,040 --> 00:25:04,520
they're expected to be
aggressive, right?

480
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:10,920
And it's seen as OK, especially
if it's in response to the

481
00:25:10,920 --> 00:25:13,080
perception of a crazy woman.
Yes.

482
00:25:13,360 --> 00:25:15,320
Right.
It's like, so real.

483
00:25:15,320 --> 00:25:17,840
Yeah.
It's like, oh, you calm her

484
00:25:17,840 --> 00:25:19,280
down.
Like, you know.

485
00:25:19,440 --> 00:25:19,800
Yeah.
She's.

486
00:25:19,840 --> 00:25:21,520
Crazy.
You gotta keep her in line.

487
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,080
Keep.
Your woman in line it kind of

488
00:25:23,080 --> 00:25:27,600
goes back to like the the female
ownership patterns, you know yes

489
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,440
of yesteryear when women wear
property which sidebar but kind

490
00:25:32,440 --> 00:25:36,360
of relevant.
I love to look at like laws that

491
00:25:36,360 --> 00:25:40,240
are technically on the books in
Utah, but you know, like for law

492
00:25:40,240 --> 00:25:43,320
you need precedent and all other
kinds of things.

493
00:25:43,320 --> 00:25:48,240
But there is technically a law
that says if your wife commits a

494
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:52,080
crime in the well, if a wife
commits a crime in the company

495
00:25:52,080 --> 00:25:53,880
of her husband, he's
responsible.

496
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,440
Oh my God, would.
Not be fun to try.

497
00:25:57,320 --> 00:26:00,120
Well, neither of us have a
husband currently to try that

498
00:26:00,120 --> 00:26:02,320
with, but yes, that would be a
fun one.

499
00:26:02,320 --> 00:26:04,600
And.
We're not giving legal advice.

500
00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,160
We are not.
We're not lawyers.

501
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:07,000
We're not.
Lawyers.

502
00:26:07,000 --> 00:26:10,200
So this is not encouraging
anybody to do it, but it just

503
00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:13,320
makes me gig because you're
like, wow, that's where you can

504
00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:17,440
really subvert patriarchy back
on itself and be like, OK, all

505
00:26:17,520 --> 00:26:20,080
right, we're going to the bank,
I'm going to rob it, and you're

506
00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,160
going to go to jail.
I mean, I'm pretty sure it

507
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:25,600
wouldn't play it like that.
But, you know, it's just

508
00:26:25,600 --> 00:26:30,320
fascinating to see how things
were constructed and then maybe

509
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:33,400
how we could fuck the system
with its own self.

510
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:34,520
Yeah.
Yeah.

511
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:38,320
OK, anything else we want to say
about Dakota?

512
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:41,360
I guess the other news is that
they're editing him out of

513
00:26:41,360 --> 00:26:45,840
Vanderpump Villa, but he is
still in the unwell winter.

514
00:26:45,880 --> 00:26:48,320
Winter Games.
Unwell Winter Games.

515
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,200
Yes, which?
I actually watched the first

516
00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:51,520
episode of.
And you quite.

517
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:53,720
Like that, I mean, it was pretty
entertaining, yeah.

518
00:26:53,760 --> 00:26:57,080
I'm excited to watch that.
That's interesting.

519
00:26:57,080 --> 00:26:59,200
I wonder, is it because it's
underway?

520
00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:05,440
Is is Vanderpump Villa underway?
It's filmed but I don't know how

521
00:27:05,440 --> 00:27:08,480
far, like in the editing process
they were or anything like that.

522
00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:14,280
Well, you know, it was welcome
because if they did it to Taylor

523
00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:18,120
with The Bachelorette situation,
I think that it's fair if you

524
00:27:18,120 --> 00:27:21,200
have an allegation of slamming
someone's head on a dashboard

525
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:25,360
that you should also have a
similar.

526
00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:28,360
Consequence.
Yes, yeah, absolutely.

527
00:27:28,360 --> 00:27:32,040
Or maybe we're all just pawns
and this is just a massive ploy

528
00:27:32,080 --> 00:27:35,680
of, you know, the the big TV
corporation.

529
00:27:35,880 --> 00:27:37,560
I mean, you might make a good
point there.

530
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:39,880
I'm still holding out hope that
we're going to see this season

531
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:41,760
of The Bachelorette.
And I kind of suspect we will,

532
00:27:41,760 --> 00:27:43,920
because.
And so it will be very heavily

533
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:44,560
watched.
Oh.

534
00:27:44,760 --> 00:27:48,680
My God, maybe like even more so
if that's possible than it was

535
00:27:48,680 --> 00:27:53,320
because the timing is very
suspect there, you know, for,

536
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,200
you know, Bravo or whoever does.
I don't even know who does the

537
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,120
bachelorettes, the ABC.
Oh, ABC, yes, sorry, wrong,

538
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:04,320
wrong, wrong place.
But you know the timing also

539
00:28:04,320 --> 00:28:08,000
with Dakota as well.
But yeah, that was I, I think

540
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:12,560
that was a very fair
development.

541
00:28:13,040 --> 00:28:17,280
I agree and I really hope that
in addition to Dakota they also

542
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,880
edit Jordan out because I don't
need to see that man on my

543
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,680
screen really.
No, no, no, never.

544
00:28:22,680 --> 00:28:25,520
Which gives us a good segue into
Jordan, all right.

545
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:28,200
Anything else you want to say
about Dakota or shall we move on

546
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:31,080
to Mr. Jordan?
I think I'm Dakota exhausted I.

547
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:36,720
Think I'm dakoted out too.
We're like, dude, just yeah, I

548
00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:39,320
mean, I could.
I just feel like I should censor

549
00:28:39,320 --> 00:28:41,680
myself because I'm probably
projecting with the things like

550
00:28:41,680 --> 00:28:43,240
I feel I wanted to say about
Dakota.

551
00:28:43,240 --> 00:28:45,520
But yeah, we can leave it there
and move to Jordan.

552
00:28:45,520 --> 00:28:47,160
We can.
Always come back, you know, if

553
00:28:47,280 --> 00:28:49,880
we have and I'm sure we're going
to have more information so

554
00:28:49,880 --> 00:28:51,760
we'll probably do a follow up as
well.

555
00:28:51,840 --> 00:28:53,640
I think so.
All right, moving down in the

556
00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:57,560
order of Dad talk that we like
the least right now, Jordan.

557
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:03,840
Yay, Jordan.
Oh wow, just where do we start

558
00:29:03,840 --> 00:29:05,560
with him?
Yeah.

559
00:29:05,640 --> 00:29:08,920
Well, do we have any updates
with Jordan since the last time

560
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:12,800
we talked about him?
I don't know that I've heard any

561
00:29:12,880 --> 00:29:16,840
updates on him since the Will I
get it right this time?

562
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:19,960
Call her daddy?
Did I get it right?

563
00:29:20,320 --> 00:29:22,360
Did I?
Not call me daddy.

564
00:29:22,360 --> 00:29:27,000
Clearly that's a whole different
request, but yeah, I have.

565
00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:28,360
Has there been?
More information.

566
00:29:28,480 --> 00:29:30,240
I don't think there's been more
information.

567
00:29:30,240 --> 00:29:33,200
Jordan, I think, has been fairly
quiet on social media, which is

568
00:29:33,200 --> 00:29:36,320
smart and probably at the advice
of his lawyer, which is what I

569
00:29:36,320 --> 00:29:38,560
would also be telling Jordan is
just shut up.

570
00:29:38,760 --> 00:29:40,600
Yeah.
I think the only thing that I

571
00:29:40,600 --> 00:29:44,560
heard was that he's remember we
had that information from Jesse

572
00:29:44,560 --> 00:29:48,480
that right before the Marciano
thing happened, she had found

573
00:29:48,480 --> 00:29:51,120
out that he had tried to hire an
escort when he was out of town

574
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,120
for a work trip.
And he is now claiming that he

575
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,200
was trying to hire strippers for
a bachelor party.

576
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:01,320
But I guess my confusion in
response to that is escorts and

577
00:30:01,320 --> 00:30:02,600
strippers are two different
things.

578
00:30:03,080 --> 00:30:05,160
Yes.
So you would assume that you

579
00:30:05,160 --> 00:30:10,560
would know who you were booking
because I don't know that I if I

580
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,520
happen to be in a position to be
booking strippers for some kind

581
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:17,480
of a party that I wouldn't
accidentally book an escort.

582
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:20,360
Yeah, I wouldn't think so.
And I would also say that if you

583
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,840
were booking strippers for a
bachelor party, why would the

584
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:26,920
business owner then reach out to
your wife and be like, hey, you

585
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:30,640
should know about this.
Yeah, it's like ordering tacos

586
00:30:30,640 --> 00:30:32,240
when you were told to bring
pizza.

587
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:35,320
Well, kind of, yeah.
It's like bringing dildos when

588
00:30:35,320 --> 00:30:37,200
you were told to bring pizza.
Like, I don't know.

589
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,240
I mean, it's, it's just like
that story doesn't hang together

590
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:42,520
for me.
It it it.

591
00:30:42,520 --> 00:30:46,840
Doesn't make any sense.
And I think it's like so classic

592
00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,520
of a lot of these men in terms
of the way they act towards

593
00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,400
their wife, Like, why are you
doing this?

594
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,800
Why are you doing that?
And they are doing equally, if

595
00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,160
not sometimes more egregious
actions.

596
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:02,480
And they're just like, what's
the problem here?

597
00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,320
Totally.
And I mean, finding out that

598
00:31:05,320 --> 00:31:09,920
information and seeing the way
he shamed Jesse, who at all

599
00:31:09,920 --> 00:31:13,960
times took full responsibility
at all times, Yeah, she never

600
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:16,440
once tried to be like, oh, it
was fine.

601
00:31:16,440 --> 00:31:18,400
Like, ever.
If anything, she.

602
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:20,720
Maybe even took more
responsibility than she needed

603
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,760
to, but she certainly owned it.
Yeah, like she was maybe too

604
00:31:23,760 --> 00:31:27,000
harsh on herself because, you
know, we find out as well that

605
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:30,720
he had reels ready to go.
Yeah, that's.

606
00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:32,760
So gross.
Gross.

607
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,720
Yeah, what a horrible person.
Just.

608
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:37,320
We're we're not Jordan fans.
We are not in case you didn't

609
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,080
know this in case.
You couldn't tell that's not our

610
00:31:40,080 --> 00:31:43,440
favorite person I like.
Him very much, though, yeah.

611
00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:47,040
And I, we're finding out too,
which we knew before as well,

612
00:31:47,040 --> 00:31:51,560
but that he went against what
they had initially agreed in

613
00:31:51,560 --> 00:31:54,680
their divorce.
And I'm also mad that he's in

614
00:31:54,680 --> 00:31:57,280
that house.
Yeah, me too.

615
00:31:57,520 --> 00:31:59,960
I mean, I've heard Jesse say
after that she wants a clean

616
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:05,080
slate and I get that.
And it's like wow, Duke gets a

617
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:09,520
sit like King of the Castle with
her success.

618
00:32:09,560 --> 00:32:12,840
Hopefully she just sells that
really quickly and gets him out

619
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:15,320
of there and then by her own
place and move on.

620
00:32:15,320 --> 00:32:18,440
That's my hope for Jessie.
Yes, I Didn't she move in

621
00:32:18,440 --> 00:32:19,680
somewhere this week?
I.

622
00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,320
Think so, Yeah.
I watch some of her social

623
00:32:22,320 --> 00:32:25,520
media, but she posts a lot and
honestly, sometimes I can't keep

624
00:32:25,520 --> 00:32:26,720
up.
I'm like, oh, there's reels with

625
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:28,760
Marciano.
There's reels with, like, some

626
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,640
other guy, like, and you know
what to like, to be fair, like

627
00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:35,040
live your life, Jesse.
Like, I love this for you.

628
00:32:35,160 --> 00:32:37,160
Like, that's no shade.
Whatever you're doing.

629
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:38,680
Like, you be as messy as you
want.

630
00:32:38,680 --> 00:32:40,520
If you want a HO phase, you take
that HO phase.

631
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:42,760
I think that's great.
It just was too much for me to

632
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:44,240
follow this week.
We were busy.

633
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:46,720
Yeah.
We had a lot going on with our V

634
00:32:46,720 --> 00:32:51,440
symposium, so yeah.
But Jordan, just no thanks.

635
00:32:51,720 --> 00:32:54,720
Hard pass.
Mr. Jordan hopefully he won't be

636
00:32:54,720 --> 00:32:58,600
in the Vanderpump and I feel
like that would be especially

637
00:32:59,720 --> 00:33:02,720
fitting, right because of all of
them, we've said this before,

638
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:06,040
Jordan was the most thirsty to
get famous like off the back of

639
00:33:06,040 --> 00:33:11,200
Jesse success out of all of.
Them and his, like face whenever

640
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:15,680
the opportunity came, like to go
to the Vanderpump Pump does that

641
00:33:15,760 --> 00:33:17,120
Vanderpump.
Yeah, that's right.

642
00:33:17,480 --> 00:33:19,720
It didn't sound right.
Mansion.

643
00:33:19,920 --> 00:33:24,240
He was like salivating.
Like he was like, oh, So what

644
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:28,400
are you going to do about it?
Like he just was so like, you

645
00:33:28,400 --> 00:33:31,440
know, it was like revenge or,
you know, oh.

646
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:34,040
Yeah.
What event did he like derail

647
00:33:34,040 --> 00:33:36,480
and like interrupt to like give
this announcement?

648
00:33:36,480 --> 00:33:37,920
Do you remember that on that?
Right.

649
00:33:38,000 --> 00:33:40,240
They were at like a fun place,
like a yeah.

650
00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:42,880
And it wasn't about for somebody
else, right?

651
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,920
Yes.
You had to be like, it's me.

652
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,800
Yep.
Like, completely unrelated.

653
00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:49,840
Yeah, I have.
It's like Brittany Ting, Ting

654
00:33:49,840 --> 00:33:52,680
Ting.
Like I don't expect in the

655
00:33:52,680 --> 00:33:54,800
middle of nowhere.
Jared and I are back together.

656
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:55,760
And then we broke up.
Yeah.

657
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:58,800
Except for unlike Brittany, he
was kind of a sweetheart and we

658
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:00,760
loved Brittany.
Maybe a little clueless.

659
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,600
That was very deliberate.
So deliberate and again, just,

660
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:07,120
oh, the spotlights on someone
else.

661
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,040
Bring it back to me, bring it
back to me.

662
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:12,920
But yeah, that really honesty
disgusted me to see.

663
00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:18,679
He was just so excited to go to
the place of Marciano to like,

664
00:34:19,199 --> 00:34:22,600
yeah, do his best, whatever.
Like ooh, no.

665
00:34:23,600 --> 00:34:25,239
Not Jordan fans, not Jordan
fans.

666
00:34:25,400 --> 00:34:27,639
Anything else we want to say
about Jordan before we move down

667
00:34:27,639 --> 00:34:29,199
the list to our next least
favorite?

668
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:33,400
I'm going to guess is probably
Zach, unless it's Grandpa Brett.

669
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,880
Yeah, it's kind.
Of a toss up.

670
00:34:36,280 --> 00:34:39,520
It's it's a toss up.
I think that Brett should

671
00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:42,760
definitely win an award for the
most cringe fest.

672
00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:43,520
Oh, boy.
Yeah.

673
00:34:43,800 --> 00:34:49,440
Oh my God.
I think part of it is because,

674
00:34:49,440 --> 00:34:54,679
you know, we're closer in age to
Brat, yes than anyone else on

675
00:34:54,679 --> 00:34:56,280
that show.
And yet we're still younger than

676
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:58,000
Brett, right?
And I think we are.

677
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:03,160
That's just like I am
embarrassed for him and honestly

678
00:35:03,160 --> 00:35:07,520
can I just say I am having joy
here?

679
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:10,520
Call us Dick punchers whatever
you want, but I love how you

680
00:35:10,520 --> 00:35:17,600
keep using that phrase.
But like at subverting the the

681
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,360
just the social norms that we've
levied against women forever to

682
00:35:23,360 --> 00:35:26,880
the men, because it even feels
weird to talk about them in this

683
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,440
way.
But it's literally the way women

684
00:35:29,440 --> 00:35:32,240
have been talked about forever,
100%.

685
00:35:32,240 --> 00:35:34,440
And it's it's kind of cathartic,
I'm not going to lie.

686
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,920
So yes, back-to-back to old man
weathers here like.

687
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,640
So funny.
It just like, you know, and you

688
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:47,000
know, that to me is like, make
this real to show that I'm good.

689
00:35:47,280 --> 00:35:50,920
Yeah.
And you're like, dude, come on.

690
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,280
I mean I'm not the biggest to me
fan but that really made me feel

691
00:35:55,280 --> 00:35:57,560
sorry for her.
I was like, oh girl.

692
00:35:57,680 --> 00:36:03,480
Yeah, I don't I I don't know if
she can crawl out of this hole.

693
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,000
She is.
Created.

694
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:10,760
And I think the difference there
is everybody else has messed up

695
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:12,560
and they've taken
accountability.

696
00:36:12,760 --> 00:36:15,360
Yeah.
Where she's just like no, no.

697
00:36:15,360 --> 00:36:19,320
And then you know, yeah.
The story shifts for the 8th

698
00:36:19,320 --> 00:36:23,160
time and you're like yes, OK,
right, like and.

699
00:36:23,160 --> 00:36:25,920
Then you see some of the text
and you're like, oh girl, girl,

700
00:36:25,920 --> 00:36:28,600
that wasn't innocent.
And then, like, as the other

701
00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:31,360
women are saying, like, well,
this is a, you know, different

702
00:36:31,360 --> 00:36:32,880
story.
And then she attacks them.

703
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:35,360
And so, like, that pattern of
behavior makes it hard to be

704
00:36:35,360 --> 00:36:38,080
sympathetic, right?
It's really tricky.

705
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:43,000
And yeah, he, I mean, he seems
to have really separated himself

706
00:36:43,000 --> 00:36:45,280
from dad talk.
Oh, yeah, that's right.

707
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,840
I there was that episode where
they it was right before the

708
00:36:48,840 --> 00:36:53,360
reunion for the previous season.
And he was just being so gross

709
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,560
and dismissive to Zach.
And I was like, I don't even

710
00:36:55,560 --> 00:36:58,120
like Zach, but like Zach is in
the right here.

711
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,000
Like, why?
Why are you making me defend

712
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,160
Zach?
So what?

713
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:02,320
I feel dirty.
Yeah.

714
00:37:02,320 --> 00:37:05,280
And he was just like, it's like
personal insults and just like,

715
00:37:05,320 --> 00:37:07,560
it was kind of, it was gross.
I did not like that.

716
00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,760
He was going pretty low, that's
for sure.

717
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:12,400
Yeah.
Yeah, that that was not fun to

718
00:37:12,480 --> 00:37:15,080
watch.
And I think it's almost like he

719
00:37:15,080 --> 00:37:20,240
has taken on this inflated role
of I am my woman's protector.

720
00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,280
And it's coming out in, you
know, the ways of him making

721
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:30,160
very odd reels to sort of defend
her honor of him.

722
00:37:30,160 --> 00:37:32,520
I think the most recent one I
saw, he's in like a cloak.

723
00:37:32,520 --> 00:37:33,920
Oh.
God, I didn't see that one.

724
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:36,760
With like a dark background and
I can't remember what the audio

725
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,080
was.
It was, it was really cringy.

726
00:37:39,440 --> 00:37:44,200
And so I think he's taken on
this like toxic protector role

727
00:37:44,200 --> 00:37:46,080
because you and I have both said
we love that.

728
00:37:46,080 --> 00:37:49,040
We're all about that.
But it's like, you know,

729
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,240
defending someone's honor also
has like a kind ability rolled

730
00:37:53,240 --> 00:37:55,880
into it.
And you can't just be like, this

731
00:37:55,880 --> 00:37:59,880
was terrible, but it is my wife.
Don't you dare.

732
00:37:59,880 --> 00:38:02,440
You know, I it's just weird.
It's just odd.

733
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:04,600
I know I'm throwing up in my
mouth a little bit thinking

734
00:38:04,600 --> 00:38:06,600
about that, but of course I'm
going to go watch it now.

735
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,840
Yeah, yeah.
We love that protective piece,

736
00:38:11,000 --> 00:38:15,880
but when it's manifesting as
these, like, gross insults and

737
00:38:15,880 --> 00:38:21,320
low blows to other people, you
know, including like Jen, like

738
00:38:21,320 --> 00:38:24,080
other women, and that just feels
really nasty.

739
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:29,600
It you know, I'm I'm not about
the whole big husband comes in

740
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,840
and and, you know, talk shit to
his wife's friends.

741
00:38:32,880 --> 00:38:36,680
Like that's like a line.
And especially given his age,

742
00:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,320
yes, like these women could be
his daughters extra creepy.

743
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:43,280
Like they're most of them are
younger than his children from

744
00:38:43,280 --> 00:38:45,880
his previous marriage.
Right to auntie age Right for

745
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:50,240
Real Housewives.
Talk about insectious reality TV

746
00:38:50,240 --> 00:38:51,760
like crossover.
Wow.

747
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:54,480
Interdisciplinary, like we said
in the talk.

748
00:38:56,320 --> 00:38:58,960
Well, yeah, they like to keep it
within the fam, Yeah.

749
00:38:59,280 --> 00:39:02,960
OK, well, let's move on to Zach.
Zach Tell.

750
00:39:02,960 --> 00:39:04,040
Me.
Your feelings about Zach?

751
00:39:04,720 --> 00:39:11,840
Well, I don't, you know, to the
point about Brett, I don't think

752
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:16,640
it was super amazing the way he
is locked in the standoff with

753
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:20,320
Whitney.
You know, we're and also a

754
00:39:20,320 --> 00:39:24,720
little shade on Jen because she
had made the coffee date with

755
00:39:24,720 --> 00:39:28,040
Whitney and then Jen didn't show
up and Zach did.

756
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:30,600
And again, it kind of comes
under that gross.

757
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,360
Like that's super gross.
I'm.

758
00:39:32,440 --> 00:39:39,040
Here to defend my wife I have
had situations where I will show

759
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:41,680
up for a lunch date with a
friend and maybe she brings her

760
00:39:41,680 --> 00:39:44,360
husband and I'm always like
that's really weird it's.

761
00:39:44,360 --> 00:39:45,800
Really weird.
That's cringe.

762
00:39:45,800 --> 00:39:47,400
Unless that was the plan to
begin.

763
00:39:47,480 --> 00:39:51,040
With or they ask or something
before would they like?

764
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:53,160
Hey, plans changed or like
whatever could they?

765
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:55,120
Yeah, but not like a oh hey,
surprise.

766
00:39:55,120 --> 00:39:58,480
Like I thought it was a girls
date but now it's like my friend

767
00:39:58,480 --> 00:40:00,840
and her husband.
I've definitely had that with

768
00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:06,120
some friends who are still
members of the dominant faith

769
00:40:06,120 --> 00:40:07,040
here.
OK.

770
00:40:07,240 --> 00:40:10,120
And it's almost.
Like I felt like the husband was

771
00:40:10,120 --> 00:40:13,880
there as like a defense from the
divorced whore.

772
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,520
Like you know what I mean?
Like to what are what are they

773
00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:19,880
telling my wife?
That may not have been the case,

774
00:40:19,880 --> 00:40:22,760
but there were just weird vibes.
You got the vibes, OK.

775
00:40:22,880 --> 00:40:27,400
It's, it's just weird vibes and
like, Wendy was very upset.

776
00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:30,280
And I, you know, I'm not saying
that maybe all of the things he

777
00:40:30,280 --> 00:40:33,440
discussed, you know, there could
be truth to some of them.

778
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,480
She definitely did let out a
little sneaky smile and laugh

779
00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,320
when Jen got voted off Dancing
with the Stars.

780
00:40:40,600 --> 00:40:43,000
We can see that with our own
eyeballs, OK?

781
00:40:43,000 --> 00:40:47,040
Sure, but in her defense, Jen
was pretty shady towards her

782
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:49,000
during that show as well.
So you.

783
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:53,440
Know and also we can do weird
things under pressure too like

784
00:40:53,720 --> 00:40:59,280
you know, I people had can
definitely laugh when things are

785
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:03,160
scary or weird as that's true,
you know weird like response.

786
00:41:03,960 --> 00:41:07,280
Or like you said earlier, like
we none of us are perfect.

787
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:10,560
And sometimes we just, it's not
our finest moment.

788
00:41:10,560 --> 00:41:12,440
Nope.
And we do something that like

789
00:41:12,440 --> 00:41:14,560
maybe isn't the best choice in
that moment.

790
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:17,200
And that can range from being
thoughtless, yeah, to being a

791
00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:20,320
little bit malicious.
But you know, like we learned on

792
00:41:20,320 --> 00:41:22,400
Friday from our friend Doctor
Jordan Rullo.

793
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,720
Yes, take 1% accountability, at
least 1% accountability.

794
00:41:27,000 --> 00:41:27,840
That's.
Not like.

795
00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:31,160
Look, that wasn't my finest
moment.

796
00:41:31,240 --> 00:41:32,280
Yeah.
And I am sorry.

797
00:41:32,400 --> 00:41:34,280
Right.
And, like, that doesn't mean

798
00:41:34,280 --> 00:41:36,360
that you're saying you're
totally at fault and the other

799
00:41:36,360 --> 00:41:38,640
person is in, you know, totally
innocent.

800
00:41:38,640 --> 00:41:40,560
Yeah.
You can also then express, like,

801
00:41:40,760 --> 00:41:43,840
how you feel hurt.
But you do kind of have to own

802
00:41:43,840 --> 00:41:46,160
your own stuff.
Well, and if both people are

803
00:41:46,160 --> 00:41:50,040
doing it, yeah, it kind of sets
a really excellent stage for

804
00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:52,480
reconciliation.
And I think that was key with

805
00:41:52,480 --> 00:41:56,000
Zach is that he's not interested
in reconciliation, he's

806
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:57,840
interested in winning.
Right.

807
00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:01,360
I was about to say it could set
the stage for reconciliation,

808
00:42:01,840 --> 00:42:06,160
but it also could set the stage
for an eternal positive feedback

809
00:42:06,160 --> 00:42:08,120
loop.
And, you know, positive meaning

810
00:42:08,120 --> 00:42:11,760
it keeps going up and up and up
and feeds on itself, right to

811
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,000
where at some point we don't
even remember what we're

812
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:16,320
fighting about anymore.
We're just fighting to fight.

813
00:42:16,400 --> 00:42:19,480
Yeah, and it just becomes like a
shade war, Yeah, which I think

814
00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:22,080
is what we're seeing.
I haven't seen all the videos,

815
00:42:22,080 --> 00:42:26,880
but I've seen some and it it's
just like so petty at this point

816
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:29,440
where, you know, Zacks like
walking and giving a dramatic

817
00:42:29,440 --> 00:42:32,160
monologue on how shitty like
Whitney is.

818
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:37,520
And, you know, I I have seen
Whitney and Connor make more

819
00:42:37,760 --> 00:42:41,640
like humorous reels about the
situation, which I don't know if

820
00:42:41,640 --> 00:42:43,560
that's a great approach either,
if you're going for

821
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:48,160
reconciliation.
But yeah, there it just seems to

822
00:42:48,160 --> 00:42:51,280
be like this standoff, not
really.

823
00:42:51,280 --> 00:42:54,520
Like, can we resolve?
And then, you know, maybe you

824
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,760
could argue, yes, they're part
of you, Zach, That's a little

825
00:42:57,760 --> 00:43:00,600
Jelly now, because.
Oh, I'm sure, definitely.

826
00:43:00,600 --> 00:43:04,120
I think there is that.
I think Jen and Zach both have a

827
00:43:04,120 --> 00:43:07,760
little bit of jealousy going on
for Whitney's great success,

828
00:43:07,760 --> 00:43:09,720
which, yeah, I think she's
earned.

829
00:43:09,720 --> 00:43:13,160
I mean, my goodness.
Like the arc from Season 1 with

830
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:14,720
Whitney has just been
incredible.

831
00:43:14,720 --> 00:43:16,640
And it's the charts.
Yeah.

832
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:18,720
I've come around like, big time.
I.

833
00:43:18,720 --> 00:43:21,640
Have come around too.
I'm a reformed Whitney hitter

834
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:25,920
cuz I was just like, you're a
raging bitch like.

835
00:43:26,280 --> 00:43:31,120
Yeah, I mean, I think she got a
pretty bad edit in Season 1,

836
00:43:31,120 --> 00:43:32,760
right?
She did do some shitty things.

837
00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:35,440
But also, you know, and this
goes back to what we were

838
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:38,480
talking about with Taylor, like
the little dance she did in,

839
00:43:38,480 --> 00:43:41,400
like, the NICU or whatever when
her child was very sick.

840
00:43:41,400 --> 00:43:44,320
And then, like, posting that for
clout, like, that really rubbed

841
00:43:44,320 --> 00:43:46,160
me the wrong way.
And like, maybe I need to think

842
00:43:46,160 --> 00:43:50,920
a little harder and deconstruct,
you know, my gender assumptions.

843
00:43:51,360 --> 00:43:55,480
I mean, I that is, I love that
you say that.

844
00:43:55,480 --> 00:44:01,800
Like, I think that's, you know,
just lovely and the empathy, I

845
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,880
think, and the cares that
everybody needs to be like, OK,

846
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:06,960
that was maybe not your finest
moment, right?

847
00:44:07,480 --> 00:44:10,360
But you know what she did?
She did actually take

848
00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:12,000
accountability and apologize for
that.

849
00:44:12,000 --> 00:44:13,840
So you know what?
Like we're good.

850
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:15,520
Yes, I'm good with that.
Yeah.

851
00:44:15,520 --> 00:44:17,640
Because we all make mistakes, we
do.

852
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:22,600
And I would imagine that being
thrown in to from, like,

853
00:44:22,640 --> 00:44:23,840
nothing.
Yeah.

854
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:28,120
I mean, let's visit sometimes
again, projecting when you're in

855
00:44:28,120 --> 00:44:31,080
that Mormon world, you can
really feel like nothing.

856
00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,600
And then all of a sudden
propelled into, you know, oh,

857
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:37,680
can you be a brand ambassador
for this sex toy?

858
00:44:37,680 --> 00:44:39,320
And you're we Mormon, fine to
school.

859
00:44:39,320 --> 00:44:42,440
Like, that's a lot of money, but
Oh my God.

860
00:44:42,440 --> 00:44:46,400
Does that compute and?
Like, honestly, for all of them

861
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,600
must have been just like raging
cognitive dissonance, you know,

862
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:53,360
of like, is this good?
Is this bad?

863
00:44:53,480 --> 00:44:56,800
I don't, no.
And I think, I mean, I think she

864
00:44:56,800 --> 00:44:59,000
stepped away from it now, but
when me in particular was

865
00:44:59,000 --> 00:45:03,160
really, she was Miss Molly
Mormon as we would have.

866
00:45:03,160 --> 00:45:05,040
Called it big time.
Yeah, big.

867
00:45:05,040 --> 00:45:08,440
Time and that must have mind
fucked her up down in sideways.

868
00:45:08,520 --> 00:45:11,240
Well, and also we met her mom on
season 1 and I was like, oh boy,

869
00:45:11,240 --> 00:45:13,360
we've got a lot to unpack from
childhood here.

870
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:16,120
So it's like, you see all the
moms and you're like.

871
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:21,960
Oh, well, I think one of the
really interesting things about

872
00:45:21,960 --> 00:45:23,680
the show and you see it with
Whitney, but you see it with a

873
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,400
lot of them is like they really
did come from this Utah

874
00:45:28,400 --> 00:45:30,880
background, very sheltered in
Utah County.

875
00:45:31,200 --> 00:45:33,800
And then they blew up overnight,
right?

876
00:45:33,800 --> 00:45:35,640
And they are young.
They're babies, like we've said

877
00:45:35,640 --> 00:45:37,040
before, like they're quite
young.

878
00:45:37,440 --> 00:45:40,000
They blew up overnight.
And I think we see it with some

879
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:42,520
of them, with Whitney, we see it
with Jesse, where like, they're

880
00:45:42,520 --> 00:45:45,480
getting a lot of, you know,
comments and reactions both

881
00:45:45,480 --> 00:45:51,120
online and in the media.
And I think it is interesting

882
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:54,280
because like, I think, for
example, with Jesse, we see

883
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,760
everyone saying, look, the way
he treats you was not OK.

884
00:45:56,760 --> 00:46:00,760
And like her coming to that
realization over time because a

885
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:04,600
lot of the behavior we see from
the men is very normalized in

886
00:46:04,600 --> 00:46:08,600
Utah County and sort of in, you
know, Utah and in the LDS Church

887
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:11,120
in general.
So, you know, suddenly they're

888
00:46:11,120 --> 00:46:15,120
like blowing up on this national
international release stage and

889
00:46:15,120 --> 00:46:17,000
they're getting all this
feedback and maybe they're

890
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:19,120
starting to take a harder look
at some things they didn't

891
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:21,720
question before.
Which is very difficult.

892
00:46:21,880 --> 00:46:26,360
I love the way you put that in
terms of, we've seen this in

893
00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:32,000
both Real Housewives and Secret
Lives where it's on a stage

894
00:46:32,080 --> 00:46:36,640
where people are going.
What, like, why is a 50 year old

895
00:46:36,640 --> 00:46:39,720
woman crying because she feels
bad about having sex with her

896
00:46:39,720 --> 00:46:42,360
long term partner?
Like, that doesn't make sense in

897
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:45,600
the real world.
Or, you know, your husband is

898
00:46:45,600 --> 00:46:49,760
clearly a misogynistic prick,
but somehow that feels

899
00:46:49,760 --> 00:46:53,160
normalized.
And, you know, that's a really

900
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:54,640
painful journey.
Yeah.

901
00:46:54,920 --> 00:46:57,800
To step away even in your wee
head, if you're like, OK,

902
00:46:57,800 --> 00:47:00,920
something's not right.
I I know it's not right, but all

903
00:47:00,920 --> 00:47:03,560
around me it's right.
Yeah.

904
00:47:03,560 --> 00:47:07,280
So like at what?
You know, I mean, imagine a lot

905
00:47:07,280 --> 00:47:09,880
cognitive dissonance.
And I think it's harder for our

906
00:47:09,880 --> 00:47:12,680
secret Lives girlies.
Not that it's easy for like our

907
00:47:12,680 --> 00:47:14,760
Real Housewives, but at least,
like, they're older, they're a

908
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,320
little more fully formed in
their personality, they've had

909
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,760
more life experience, etcetera.
But like, most of these women

910
00:47:20,760 --> 00:47:22,160
are in their 20s.
Yeah.

911
00:47:22,160 --> 00:47:24,400
The ones that aren't are in
their very early 30s, right?

912
00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:26,840
So like, they just, you know,
and a lot of them, I think have

913
00:47:26,840 --> 00:47:29,600
probably been living in the
Mormon bubble for like, their

914
00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:31,800
whole lives and suddenly they're
not.

915
00:47:31,920 --> 00:47:35,240
Yes, and they're, I mean,
there's just so many things

916
00:47:35,240 --> 00:47:40,960
happening there and that is such
a young, young age and also a

917
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,760
young age to be dealing with
things like motherhood.

918
00:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,200
And also a lot of these women
were the husbands have come out,

919
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,360
Zach in particular, they've been
postpartum as well.

920
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:55,000
Yeah.
Which I'm not saying that means

921
00:47:55,000 --> 00:47:57,920
you can do whatever you want,
but like, things are happening

922
00:47:57,920 --> 00:47:59,640
in your body and your mind.
Yep.

923
00:47:59,920 --> 00:48:04,680
You know, and you know, for
Whitney and also Jen, they had

924
00:48:04,680 --> 00:48:08,000
to go right into training for
Dancing With the Stars very

925
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:13,000
closely postpartum crazy in
scene, like, and to have some

926
00:48:13,120 --> 00:48:15,280
man barking at you that you're
being a terrible mother.

927
00:48:15,280 --> 00:48:19,280
Like, I would imagine that I
would have just sobbed and felt

928
00:48:19,280 --> 00:48:22,840
like a terrible mother.
So yeah, we're not Zach Vans.

929
00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,400
No, not really.
I mean, I have a lot of empathy

930
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:29,120
for all these women and I, as we
talked last time, I am trying,

931
00:48:29,120 --> 00:48:32,160
but I'm struggling hard to have
empathy for these men.

932
00:48:32,600 --> 00:48:34,600
I really am.
I am trying, I promise.

933
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:37,480
I know I like.
We're taking so deep.

934
00:48:37,720 --> 00:48:39,720
Of them are making it kind of
difficult.

935
00:48:39,720 --> 00:48:46,200
For me, it's they're just so I
think self interested and I

936
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:51,840
guess the compassionate approach
would be, you know, nobody wins

937
00:48:51,840 --> 00:48:55,560
from patriarchy, right?
Not even men, because they're

938
00:48:55,560 --> 00:48:57,560
also slotted into this little
box.

939
00:48:57,560 --> 00:49:02,400
And, you know, their minds have
also been really polluted in the

940
00:49:02,400 --> 00:49:05,400
context of religion.
And you know what, 12 years old,

941
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,360
you're supposed to be this
priesthood holder at 12.

942
00:49:08,760 --> 00:49:12,280
And you know, if you're real is
like that, like that is like a

943
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,640
breeding ground for narcissists.
Like, you are special, you are

944
00:49:15,640 --> 00:49:18,080
powerful.
You are, you know, and of course

945
00:49:18,080 --> 00:49:20,680
we all want to give our children
confidence, but we also don't

946
00:49:20,680 --> 00:49:22,960
want want to turn them into
assholes, right?

947
00:49:23,440 --> 00:49:25,400
So yeah.
That's a really good point.

948
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:27,680
Like they've been told that and
now suddenly they're in this

949
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:31,840
funhouse version of everything
where like their wives are like

950
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,680
the more powerful person and
like they're being criticized

951
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:37,800
for these behaviors that are
rewarded, like where they came

952
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:38,520
from.
Yeah.

953
00:49:38,520 --> 00:49:42,160
So it's it's interesting.
I mean, I hope that I would like

954
00:49:42,160 --> 00:49:45,320
to hold out some hope that some
of them will deconstruct that

955
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:47,920
and sort of, you know, come
around to the light.

956
00:49:48,280 --> 00:49:51,600
It's real.
Easy to slip into and just, you

957
00:49:51,600 --> 00:49:56,040
know, throwback moment to Zach
in one of the early series where

958
00:49:56,400 --> 00:50:01,200
Jen had gone to the Chippendales
in Vegas, which wasn't even our

959
00:50:01,200 --> 00:50:02,760
choice.
They didn't know where they were

960
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:03,320
going.
I.

961
00:50:03,360 --> 00:50:04,720
Mean.
She was almost dragged there.

962
00:50:04,720 --> 00:50:07,040
It's not like she was force, but
she didn't know it was a

963
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,200
surprise.
She was visibly uncomfortable

964
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:11,600
with the whole thing.
And didn't she like stay in the

965
00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:15,440
back like to Eden all like she
stayed far, far away touching or

966
00:50:15,480 --> 00:50:18,680
participating, right.
She wasn't dying there grinding

967
00:50:18,680 --> 00:50:23,640
on the tobacco And I that phone
call like I like the gates of

968
00:50:23,640 --> 00:50:29,520
hell opened in my body because
he's sitting gambling thousands

969
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,640
of her money of her money that
she literally gave him for the

970
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:36,840
trip, saying, you know, well,
it's not very becoming of a

971
00:50:36,840 --> 00:50:39,720
latter day St. and he's
literally sitting at like a

972
00:50:39,720 --> 00:50:41,960
blackjack table.
Yeah, and threatening to leave

973
00:50:41,960 --> 00:50:43,880
her.
And by the way, our friends who

974
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,440
weren't raised in the LDS faith,
you're not supposed to gamble

975
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:48,320
either.
That is a taboo in Mormonism.

976
00:50:48,320 --> 00:50:51,560
It's a major taboo.
Like personally I've no problem

977
00:50:51,560 --> 00:50:52,880
with that.
It's fun.

978
00:50:52,880 --> 00:50:54,400
Go fill your boots.
Right?

979
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:59,480
Like but like sure, but like for
him to be sitting at a literal

980
00:50:59,480 --> 00:51:03,800
gambling table threatening to
leave her and calling her all

981
00:51:03,800 --> 00:51:09,160
the harlots in creation?
The hypocrisy in that was vile

982
00:51:09,160 --> 00:51:11,400
to me off the.
Charts, off the charts.

983
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,040
Yeah, it was really upsetting.
And he's not really improved.

984
00:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,080
Sometimes it feels like he's
trying to, or maybe he's learned

985
00:51:19,080 --> 00:51:20,520
to be more performative about
it.

986
00:51:20,520 --> 00:51:23,240
I'm not really sure which.
I'm trying to hold space for

987
00:51:23,240 --> 00:51:26,320
him, trying to improve, but he's
not doing great so far.

988
00:51:26,480 --> 00:51:29,000
In my opinion, he's not.
You're a very good human

989
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:31,320
military.
No, I don't know that I am, but

990
00:51:31,400 --> 00:51:34,800
like, I feel like empathy is a
thing that I've, I've been, I've

991
00:51:34,800 --> 00:51:37,280
worked on for a long time.
And so I try.

992
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:40,080
You have.
You are a very empathetic human.

993
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:41,280
Thank you.
I feel that.

994
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:44,680
Thank you.
Well, shall we move on to Jace?

995
00:51:44,720 --> 00:51:46,600
Two other people that are not
empathetic.

996
00:51:47,640 --> 00:51:51,480
Oh my God, aid.
I know Jace, who like would be

997
00:51:51,480 --> 00:51:53,960
higher on our list except for
the other men have been bad

998
00:51:53,960 --> 00:51:58,160
enough to like be ahead of him.
But just as a reminder, Jace got

999
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,520
Michaela pregnant when she was
16.

1000
00:52:00,520 --> 00:52:05,320
She's had four of his children.
And I think we said this last

1001
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:08,440
time, but the first couple of
seasons I was like, oh, he seems

1002
00:52:08,440 --> 00:52:09,960
nice.
But then I like read that and I

1003
00:52:09,960 --> 00:52:12,280
was like, oh, I don't really
like that at all.

1004
00:52:12,560 --> 00:52:15,120
And then we started seeing a
little more of Jace, which I

1005
00:52:15,120 --> 00:52:18,880
also don't like.
I yeah, I saw a term this week

1006
00:52:18,880 --> 00:52:23,880
online that I thought was great
to describe him in that he was

1007
00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:25,800
gunning for the good husband.
Edit.

1008
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:27,440
Oh, I think he was him and
Jacob.

1009
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:29,840
Yeah.
And I think, Oh yeah, the pair

1010
00:52:29,840 --> 00:52:33,480
of them, I think we're like
transitioning here crossing over

1011
00:52:33,480 --> 00:52:40,320
this line from like just the the
notably like just very clearly

1012
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:46,080
gross, like actions and you
know, no filter to we're

1013
00:52:46,080 --> 00:52:50,040
crossing over into the nice guy.
Quote UN Quote Yes.

1014
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:54,160
Like this facade of but I'm a
nice guy and sometimes the nice

1015
00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:57,360
guys are really shitty.
Honestly, it can even be a

1016
00:52:57,360 --> 00:53:00,280
little more pernicious because
there's not always something

1017
00:53:00,280 --> 00:53:03,560
very overt to call out.
Yeah, I've definitely had this

1018
00:53:03,560 --> 00:53:05,920
happen in my own life.
Like guys who will describe

1019
00:53:05,920 --> 00:53:09,240
themselves all day as like, a
great guy, a nice guy, someone

1020
00:53:09,240 --> 00:53:10,760
who would never disrespect
women.

1021
00:53:10,840 --> 00:53:13,400
Yeah.
But maybe they just, you know,

1022
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:17,520
and I think they believe it, but
there is an undertone to their

1023
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,680
behavior and the way they speak
to you that is not nice and not

1024
00:53:21,680 --> 00:53:24,360
okay and pretty sexist, to be
honest.

1025
00:53:24,440 --> 00:53:27,280
Yeah.
And if you can't really point it

1026
00:53:27,280 --> 00:53:29,760
out to them because they will
get very defensive and very

1027
00:53:29,760 --> 00:53:32,320
upset about it because in their
head they're one of the good

1028
00:53:32,320 --> 00:53:35,880
ones, yeah.
They're a nice guy, so AKA know

1029
00:53:35,880 --> 00:53:38,920
what kind ability there because
they're nice, right?

1030
00:53:39,160 --> 00:53:43,040
But living in Utah, we know that
nice is actually pretty toxic,

1031
00:53:43,040 --> 00:53:46,800
and we'd rather have kind.
Yes, yes, kind, not nice and

1032
00:53:46,800 --> 00:53:48,720
some men really are nice and
kind.

1033
00:53:48,720 --> 00:53:51,440
So like I don't want to say like
this is every man who's like I'm

1034
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:54,400
a nice guy, but some of them,
even if there's not an overt

1035
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:57,240
action to call out right, like
they wouldn't spike your drink

1036
00:53:57,240 --> 00:53:59,400
and rape you right like they
wouldn't hate you.

1037
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:00,400
They're.
So nice.

1038
00:54:01,000 --> 00:54:04,520
Oh wow.
But interestingly, when women

1039
00:54:04,520 --> 00:54:07,360
are criticized, they pile on.
And when men are, they defend

1040
00:54:07,360 --> 00:54:09,040
them, you know?
And you're like, that's not a

1041
00:54:09,040 --> 00:54:10,440
nice guy, though.
Nope.

1042
00:54:10,520 --> 00:54:14,280
And it's like they're benefiting
from the bar being so low for

1043
00:54:14,280 --> 00:54:17,800
women and instead of trying to
up it for their buddies, yeah,

1044
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,160
they're just like, I'm not going
to roofie you.

1045
00:54:20,440 --> 00:54:22,200
I'm not going to punch you in
the face.

1046
00:54:22,200 --> 00:54:23,040
Aren't.
IA nice guy.

1047
00:54:23,040 --> 00:54:26,040
I'm so nice.
Like yes.

1048
00:54:26,040 --> 00:54:30,400
And as you say, we've had those
experiences in our personal

1049
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,760
life, definitely of the nice guy
vibe.

1050
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,960
And it's it's kind of.
Oh, yeah.

1051
00:54:35,160 --> 00:54:36,880
It definitely can be.
Yep.

1052
00:54:37,320 --> 00:54:41,640
And I think, you know, here's
the thing, like, of course, I

1053
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:47,240
think generalization, but it
would be a fair one to say that

1054
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,960
if you're in a relationship, a
meaningful relationship, that,

1055
00:54:51,320 --> 00:54:55,480
you know, intimacy is a lovely
part of that, but it's not a

1056
00:54:55,480 --> 00:54:58,720
demand or an expectation.
And he's kind of turned it in.

1057
00:54:58,720 --> 00:55:01,400
Well, there's no kind of, he's
turned it into that.

1058
00:55:01,960 --> 00:55:05,760
And particularly given the
trauma that she's like trying to

1059
00:55:05,760 --> 00:55:08,400
work through, like she's not
just complaining about it, like

1060
00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,120
she's actively trying to
confront it and move on.

1061
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:14,560
And maybe she'll realize that
the problem is Jace.

1062
00:55:14,960 --> 00:55:17,880
Well, part of because, I mean,
let's let's be clear, to add on

1063
00:55:17,880 --> 00:55:20,040
to what you're seeing.
Like what she went through in

1064
00:55:20,040 --> 00:55:22,080
childhood was horrific,
horrific.

1065
00:55:22,080 --> 00:55:24,840
We don't know all the details,
but yeah, she was sexually

1066
00:55:24,840 --> 00:55:28,480
abused as a child and it was
clearly just horrible.

1067
00:55:28,680 --> 00:55:31,880
Yeah, because she had that layer
that often happens within

1068
00:55:31,920 --> 00:55:35,560
religion where it didn't seem
like she was believed and she

1069
00:55:35,560 --> 00:55:38,360
was victim shamed for it too.
And I.

1070
00:55:38,440 --> 00:55:42,840
Mean at some point we can talk
about all of the the Mormon

1071
00:55:42,840 --> 00:55:45,920
church abuse things that are
kind of going on and hitting the

1072
00:55:45,920 --> 00:55:47,520
news.
We'll leave that for now.

1073
00:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,280
But like, this is a definite
strand that can happen not just

1074
00:55:50,280 --> 00:55:54,360
in Mormonism, but in any sort of
patriarchal system like this

1075
00:55:54,480 --> 00:55:59,840
definitely where women and
children are not believed. 100%

1076
00:56:00,280 --> 00:56:03,680
I mean, yeah, there's there's
countless examples that that we

1077
00:56:03,680 --> 00:56:07,760
could bring to bear.
But you know, he, I think he's

1078
00:56:07,760 --> 00:56:10,520
definitely hiding behind that
nice guy.

1079
00:56:10,520 --> 00:56:15,040
Like he doesn't raise his voice.
He doesn't, you know, he's like

1080
00:56:15,040 --> 00:56:17,200
kind of your energy.
I don't.

1081
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:21,680
Know like a little your energy.
Yeah, a sweet sorry, go ahead.

1082
00:56:21,840 --> 00:56:23,680
Just an Irish phrase came to
mind.

1083
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:25,440
Like the flies are dropping off
him.

1084
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:28,520
I love that he's.
Just kind of.

1085
00:56:29,240 --> 00:56:31,560
Blah.
You know, Yeah, Yeah.

1086
00:56:31,560 --> 00:56:36,200
But so he instead of using sort
of overt, you know, physical

1087
00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:40,240
abuse or emotional abuse or
anything like that, he's got the

1088
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:42,280
little emotional manipulation
going on.

1089
00:56:42,280 --> 00:56:46,440
So he weaponizes the pouting and
the sulking and the, you know,

1090
00:56:46,760 --> 00:56:48,840
you know what I mean?
Like the hang dog thing going

1091
00:56:48,840 --> 00:56:51,200
on?
Well, cuz it's like you're not

1092
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:53,480
meeting my expectations.
Poor me.

1093
00:56:53,600 --> 00:56:56,960
Yes, that's not a good look.
I don't.

1094
00:56:56,960 --> 00:57:01,120
I don't, I don't like that.
And I think, again, what I know

1095
00:57:01,120 --> 00:57:05,200
is that context of of Mormonism,
I assume it happens in other

1096
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:10,000
spots too, where, you know, it's
like you're not living up to the

1097
00:57:10,000 --> 00:57:11,880
expectations of a good Mormon
wife here.

1098
00:57:11,880 --> 00:57:16,000
And it's kind of disappointing.
And that's its own level of

1099
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:17,800
abusive behavior.
It is.

1100
00:57:18,200 --> 00:57:22,040
And as you say, maybe even worse
because it's so hard to detect.

1101
00:57:22,040 --> 00:57:23,560
Yeah.
It's more subtle and it's more

1102
00:57:23,640 --> 00:57:26,320
pernicious, Yes.
And it makes you feel like

1103
00:57:26,320 --> 00:57:28,680
you're the problem.
Yes, you're the broken one.

1104
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:31,160
Yep.
And it takes a long time to sort

1105
00:57:31,160 --> 00:57:33,320
of recognize that pattern.
Yeah.

1106
00:57:33,560 --> 00:57:36,720
And I think from some of the way
she's presented and things she

1107
00:57:36,720 --> 00:57:40,000
said, she's definitely
internalized that I think to a

1108
00:57:40,000 --> 00:57:42,320
point.
Pass on Jace.

1109
00:57:42,680 --> 00:57:45,360
Yeah, pass on Jace.
All right, moving on to Jacob.

1110
00:57:45,680 --> 00:57:48,200
Yeah, he, he's.
An interesting one because he is

1111
00:57:48,200 --> 00:57:51,040
like a nice guy.
Times, 5000 another.

1112
00:57:51,040 --> 00:57:53,280
Nice guy.
I feel like with Jacob, we have

1113
00:57:53,280 --> 00:57:56,000
less data than with some of the
rest of them because they feel

1114
00:57:56,000 --> 00:57:58,480
like he's gotten less air time,
he's done less acting out,

1115
00:57:58,480 --> 00:58:00,240
right.
So there's less to sort of put

1116
00:58:00,240 --> 00:58:01,480
on screen with him.
Yeah.

1117
00:58:01,480 --> 00:58:03,440
So I don't know.
For me, the jury is kind of out

1118
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,640
with Jacob, although he did have
that one comment.

1119
00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:09,960
Do you remember?
Oh yeah, that that one.

1120
00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:15,040
And it maybe landed a little
harder with those of us with a

1121
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:18,600
background and Mormonism, too.
Would you like to share that

1122
00:58:18,600 --> 00:58:21,320
lovely comment that you?
Made I think you could go ahead.

1123
00:58:22,600 --> 00:58:26,960
Well when again they were
talking, I mean we got little

1124
00:58:26,960 --> 00:58:31,120
features of discussing the wifes
success and how that was going

1125
00:58:31,120 --> 00:58:35,840
to play out in family dynamics.
And his response was well, the

1126
00:58:35,840 --> 00:58:38,240
priesthood should be the
ultimate decision maker.

1127
00:58:38,680 --> 00:58:43,400
Vomit.
Yeah, and it's for our listeners

1128
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:47,680
with not a Mormon background.
This is really solidified in the

1129
00:58:47,680 --> 00:58:53,000
temple where, you know, the wife
is told in the temple that she

1130
00:58:53,000 --> 00:58:55,560
will follow the husband, the
direction of the husband.

1131
00:58:55,880 --> 00:58:59,080
And there's like a slight
caveat, like it's something like

1132
00:58:59,080 --> 00:59:02,720
in Shakespearean language in so
far as he like who was.

1133
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:07,120
So, you know, in so far as he
follows the counsel of our Lord.

1134
00:59:07,400 --> 00:59:11,080
Here's the problem with that.
You know, how are we

1135
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:14,960
interpreting the counsel of the
Lord And when you've already

1136
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:19,480
given somebody like the power
quote, UN quote to speak for the

1137
00:59:19,480 --> 00:59:22,200
Lord, then the Lord can say
whatever you want him to say

1138
00:59:22,200 --> 00:59:24,080
that's.
Right, so who gets to decide?

1139
00:59:24,080 --> 00:59:26,280
Not the woman.
Yep, not him.

1140
00:59:26,280 --> 00:59:30,400
So, you know, you can shroud it
in this priesthood power, which

1141
00:59:30,400 --> 00:59:33,560
again is even more nefarious
because it's not Mr. Jacob

1142
00:59:33,560 --> 00:59:37,960
saying, oh, you know, I ruled
the roost here and I should be

1143
00:59:37,960 --> 00:59:40,120
the focus he sent.
Well, the priesthood power

1144
00:59:40,120 --> 00:59:44,040
clearly states, yeah, that, you
know, that should be the final

1145
00:59:44,040 --> 00:59:46,520
decision maker.
And guess who holds it in our

1146
00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,160
marriage, right?
So I think, again, we don't have

1147
00:59:50,160 --> 00:59:52,680
a ton of data on Jacob.
I would say like maybe the most

1148
00:59:52,680 --> 00:59:56,040
compassionate view of Jacob is
he has grown up and been raised

1149
00:59:56,040 --> 00:59:59,080
in this patriarchal system.
He's been embedded in it and

1150
00:59:59,080 --> 01:00:01,400
he's he's living it.
He's parenting it.

1151
01:00:01,400 --> 01:00:03,880
Like this is what he was told
his whole life that he should

1152
01:00:03,880 --> 01:00:06,440
be.
So I don't want to like shit on

1153
01:00:06,440 --> 01:00:07,320
Jacob.
Exactly.

1154
01:00:07,320 --> 01:00:09,280
I think we just don't have
enough information.

1155
01:00:09,320 --> 01:00:11,560
Yeah.
And I would hope that he whether

1156
01:00:11,560 --> 01:00:13,200
or.
If not, he stays Mormon for his

1157
01:00:13,200 --> 01:00:14,840
whole life.
I would hope that he maybe

1158
01:00:14,840 --> 01:00:17,400
question some of the assumptions
that he was raised with.

1159
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,160
Yeah.
And again, he could also be in

1160
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,080
this phase of deconstructing or
cognitive dissonance where he's

1161
01:00:24,080 --> 01:00:27,960
like, wait, I'm, I'm happy for
this woman because I really love

1162
01:00:27,960 --> 01:00:30,600
her.
And I'm, I'm thrilled and proud.

1163
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:36,520
And, but also I've kind of been
told, yeah, there's, there's

1164
01:00:36,520 --> 01:00:40,640
this thing that I should be
doing and, you know.

1165
01:00:41,680 --> 01:00:45,760
I'm confused, right?
And I mean, from what we've

1166
01:00:45,760 --> 01:00:48,200
seen, he seems like he treats
Macy okay.

1167
01:00:48,200 --> 01:00:50,720
I don't think we've seen
otherwise so.

1168
01:00:50,800 --> 01:00:54,520
There seems to be a lot of
decent happiness happening in

1169
01:00:54,520 --> 01:00:56,760
that household.
Yeah, I think that's fair.

1170
01:00:56,800 --> 01:00:58,320
They seem.
Fine, yeah, what we know now.

1171
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,120
I think so.
Who do we have left?

1172
01:01:01,120 --> 01:01:05,720
Well, we have two left and I
would like to kind of move to.

1173
01:01:05,720 --> 01:01:07,240
It's not, he's not exactly dad
talk.

1174
01:01:07,240 --> 01:01:10,920
He's kind of dad talk adjacent,
but one of my favorites,

1175
01:01:10,920 --> 01:01:13,840
everyone's favorite bad boy and
apparently the only man in Utah

1176
01:01:13,840 --> 01:01:15,560
since he gets together with all
of them.

1177
01:01:15,560 --> 01:01:17,640
And that would be Chase
Mcwhorter.

1178
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:19,640
Oh.
Yes, dear Chase.

1179
01:01:20,040 --> 01:01:24,240
I have to admit I kind of love
Chase and he is not perfect and

1180
01:01:24,240 --> 01:01:26,520
he's done some things that are
bad.

1181
01:01:27,320 --> 01:01:31,800
However, I did listen to his
Mormon Story interview recently,

1182
01:01:32,800 --> 01:01:36,160
and, you know, if you're so
inclined, everyone you could

1183
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:38,280
listen to that.
Now, like most Mormon Stories

1184
01:01:38,280 --> 01:01:40,720
episodes, it's quite long.
It's about 3 hours long.

1185
01:01:41,360 --> 01:01:44,400
But it was really good.
And he kind of won me over.

1186
01:01:44,400 --> 01:01:46,840
To be honest, when we first saw
him on screen, I did not like

1187
01:01:46,840 --> 01:01:48,600
him.
Yeah, he kind of came off as an

1188
01:01:48,600 --> 01:01:51,880
asshole.
But in that interview, he was

1189
01:01:51,880 --> 01:01:54,600
funny.
Yeah, he was charming, but he

1190
01:01:54,600 --> 01:01:57,200
also took a lot of
accountability for his own

1191
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:00,120
actions.
Now, I wouldn't say he took 100%

1192
01:02:00,480 --> 01:02:03,520
accountability for everything.
Yeah, I mean, particularly he

1193
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,760
does have a DUI, for example,
and I'm not, he did take some

1194
01:02:07,760 --> 01:02:08,600
accountability.
Yeah.

1195
01:02:08,600 --> 01:02:11,840
I'm not sure if it was full or
just the interview, like they

1196
01:02:11,840 --> 01:02:13,440
didn't really dig into it that
much.

1197
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,640
But at least he acknowledges
what he has done wrong.

1198
01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:19,920
Yeah.
And I also give him a lot of

1199
01:02:19,920 --> 01:02:23,400
credit for the way that he
treats Miranda because it's

1200
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:25,880
pretty.
It seems pretty great.

1201
01:02:26,680 --> 01:02:30,920
It seems very amicable and in
the interest of the kids, like,

1202
01:02:31,320 --> 01:02:34,320
even just the fact that, you
know, there was footage where

1203
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,080
they were all at the park
together.

1204
01:02:36,080 --> 01:02:38,640
Yeah.
Which is so good for children to

1205
01:02:38,640 --> 01:02:41,600
see, even if parents are
divorced and they're able to

1206
01:02:41,600 --> 01:02:44,880
hang out and have a
conversation, they make little

1207
01:02:44,880 --> 01:02:47,840
cute reels together kind of
mocking some of those ideas of

1208
01:02:47,840 --> 01:02:52,240
like Co parenting and and men
and dad jokes and you know,

1209
01:02:52,240 --> 01:02:53,000
it's.
So cute.

1210
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:56,160
That's impressive, honestly.
It's so rare.

1211
01:02:56,320 --> 01:02:58,160
It's really rare.
And like he's taken

1212
01:02:58,160 --> 01:03:02,240
accountability there too.
So you know, he's said like the

1213
01:03:02,240 --> 01:03:04,240
marriage falling apart is 100%
my fault.

1214
01:03:04,240 --> 01:03:06,360
Miranda is not to blame
whatsoever.

1215
01:03:06,760 --> 01:03:10,160
And he said on the interview
also that they don't even have a

1216
01:03:10,160 --> 01:03:12,640
custody agreement.
He just texts her like every

1217
01:03:12,640 --> 01:03:15,040
day, every week and like what do
you need from me today?

1218
01:03:15,040 --> 01:03:16,240
What do you need from me this
week?

1219
01:03:16,240 --> 01:03:18,920
When can I take the kids?
Like what do you need?

1220
01:03:18,920 --> 01:03:21,240
And I will work my schedule
around it to accommodate.

1221
01:03:21,800 --> 01:03:24,520
Damn right.
I'm like rendered speechless.

1222
01:03:24,560 --> 01:03:28,000
I know like you can see why I'm
a Chase fan, right?

1223
01:03:28,760 --> 01:03:31,720
Well, because.
There has to be a high level of

1224
01:03:31,720 --> 01:03:35,440
mutual trust for that to work
yes and also feeling like you

1225
01:03:35,440 --> 01:03:39,400
can trust somebody enough to
rely on them yes is huge because

1226
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:41,880
some people don't even feel like
that when they're married, never

1227
01:03:41,880 --> 01:03:46,320
mind when they're, you know,
separated and to be able to work

1228
01:03:46,320 --> 01:03:49,720
together and you know, obviously
credits due for her too there

1229
01:03:50,200 --> 01:03:51,200
and.
Yeah, a million.

1230
01:03:51,200 --> 01:03:53,640
Yeah, percent.
So all the credit to Miranda.

1231
01:03:53,680 --> 01:03:57,280
Yeah, she's amazing.
Miranda's a perfect Angel, She.

1232
01:03:57,320 --> 01:03:59,280
Really is pretty cool, Chase
will say as well.

1233
01:03:59,280 --> 01:04:02,760
Yes I know he says 0 bad words
about her, he only builds her

1234
01:04:02,760 --> 01:04:04,520
up.
I just think that's super

1235
01:04:04,520 --> 01:04:05,560
admirable.
I.

1236
01:04:05,800 --> 01:04:10,080
Mega high 5 and may all the men
on the earth follow his example

1237
01:04:10,160 --> 01:04:14,760
because, you know, as we've
said, no one is perfect.

1238
01:04:15,040 --> 01:04:16,480
The difference is
accountability.

1239
01:04:16,480 --> 01:04:18,800
And it seems he's taken more
than 1%.

1240
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:21,000
Maybe not 100, but definitely
more than one.

1241
01:04:21,000 --> 01:04:22,160
Yeah.
I mean, I think for his

1242
01:04:22,160 --> 01:04:23,680
marriage, he's taken 100.
Yeah.

1243
01:04:23,960 --> 01:04:25,200
For the rest of it, I don't
really know.

1244
01:04:25,200 --> 01:04:27,680
But he's he's taken a lot.
He has.

1245
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:29,920
This is a strand we've talked
about before.

1246
01:04:29,920 --> 01:04:33,480
He has deconstructed his Mormon
faith, and it was a really good

1247
01:04:33,480 --> 01:04:35,440
interview.
So hashtag Mormon stories,

1248
01:04:35,440 --> 01:04:38,160
hashtag John Dylan shout out.
It was really interesting to

1249
01:04:38,160 --> 01:04:40,520
listen to.
So he deconstructed that.

1250
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:43,560
But I feel like he's also done a
pretty good job of

1251
01:04:43,560 --> 01:04:47,360
deconstructing at least some of
his gender role in patriarchal

1252
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:49,200
assumptions.
You know, he said in that

1253
01:04:49,200 --> 01:04:50,720
interview, he's like, the women
are in charge.

1254
01:04:50,720 --> 01:04:53,080
That's how it should be.
Like, they are driving the train

1255
01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:54,040
here.
They're making the money.

1256
01:04:54,040 --> 01:04:56,320
He's like, I'm just here to
like, do whatever Miranda needs

1257
01:04:56,320 --> 01:04:58,240
me to do.
Amazing, right?

1258
01:04:58,400 --> 01:05:01,360
Like and it doesn't feel
performative because we're

1259
01:05:01,360 --> 01:05:06,320
seeing actions align exactly and
also she has a platform to say

1260
01:05:06,320 --> 01:05:12,680
otherwise if it's not actually.
The key is but he seems to be

1261
01:05:12,840 --> 01:05:16,320
the words and the actions align,
which is something that seems

1262
01:05:16,400 --> 01:05:20,160
really missing in arguably most
of Dad talk I.

1263
01:05:20,160 --> 01:05:23,200
Would agree, you know, now is he
a little messy like?

1264
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:26,840
Oh yeah, cuz he's trying to get
with like every single woman on

1265
01:05:26,840 --> 01:05:28,840
the show.
He and Jesse kissed right?

1266
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:30,240
Like it was odd.
It's.

1267
01:05:30,280 --> 01:05:34,680
Just it's kind of funny, but.
Yeah, that's like three of them.

1268
01:05:34,680 --> 01:05:38,120
Not he's been with, Yeah.
It's like a a bunch, right but.

1269
01:05:39,360 --> 01:05:44,080
You're so kind.
Yeah, yeah.

1270
01:05:44,240 --> 01:05:47,840
Anyway, so Chase isn't perfect,
but again, none of us are.

1271
01:05:47,880 --> 01:05:51,440
And like his actions have and
and like what he said on that

1272
01:05:51,440 --> 01:05:53,640
interview have really like
brought me all the way around.

1273
01:05:53,640 --> 01:05:57,120
I'm a I'm a total Chase fan.
I after hearing you talk about

1274
01:05:57,120 --> 01:06:00,080
it, I've seen some of the week
clips and reels on Instagram

1275
01:06:00,080 --> 01:06:03,160
from Mormon stories but that is
one I'm going to definitely

1276
01:06:03,160 --> 01:06:06,800
listen to over probably 3 days.
But like I will take your time.

1277
01:06:06,920 --> 01:06:09,040
Take your time.
It's good that it is long.

1278
01:06:09,120 --> 01:06:11,280
Yeah.
Also, by the way sidebar, I

1279
01:06:11,280 --> 01:06:13,160
would love for Miranda to be The
Bachelorette.

1280
01:06:13,520 --> 01:06:17,560
Oh I think she would be amazing
as a Bachelorette because she

1281
01:06:17,560 --> 01:06:20,280
seems open and available.
Yes exactly.

1282
01:06:20,280 --> 01:06:24,520
You love she has a spouse or
ex-spouse that would not make

1283
01:06:24,520 --> 01:06:28,200
her feel bad Who I feel like
would only encourage that

1284
01:06:28,200 --> 01:06:29,560
probably.
Be really supportive.

1285
01:06:29,560 --> 01:06:33,480
Yes, Oh my God yes.
Get her on as The Bachelorette.

1286
01:06:33,480 --> 01:06:34,560
That would be.
Wonderful.

1287
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:38,080
She.
Would be amazing and she is such

1288
01:06:38,080 --> 01:06:41,560
like a chill girly and a good.
She's a good hype man too, like

1289
01:06:41,560 --> 01:06:44,280
with her friends.
And, you know, I think the

1290
01:06:44,280 --> 01:06:49,680
position that she was placed in
between Taylor and the girl

1291
01:06:49,680 --> 01:06:52,520
whose name I can't remember,
that was having a little fling

1292
01:06:52,520 --> 01:06:55,640
with Dakota and you could see
or.

1293
01:06:55,880 --> 01:06:58,120
Whatever, whoever.
That yeah, Shania or something,

1294
01:06:58,120 --> 01:07:00,960
Yeah.
Like, you know, she seemed like

1295
01:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,000
a real one in terms of a friend
as well.

1296
01:07:03,360 --> 01:07:06,480
Yeah, I agree.
And she's one of the original

1297
01:07:06,480 --> 01:07:07,640
mom talkers.
Yeah.

1298
01:07:07,720 --> 01:07:10,160
Oh, by the way, that interview
was also really interesting to

1299
01:07:10,200 --> 01:07:13,000
hear Chase talk about the quote.
Soft swinging.

1300
01:07:13,480 --> 01:07:17,760
Oh, it's not nearly as juicy as
everyone selling it out to be.

1301
01:07:17,800 --> 01:07:20,040
Yeah.
That's funny because, yeah, when

1302
01:07:20,040 --> 01:07:23,520
you take it into the Mormon
context, it's probably like

1303
01:07:23,880 --> 01:07:27,280
touching someone's hand.
Yeah, no, it was like more like,

1304
01:07:27,360 --> 01:07:29,320
Oh my God, it was hilarious.
It was more like high school

1305
01:07:29,320 --> 01:07:32,400
shit where like they were like
drinking and playing spin the

1306
01:07:32,400 --> 01:07:35,240
bottle and kissing.
That sounds like that was kind

1307
01:07:35,240 --> 01:07:37,800
of it.
But then Taylor had an affair

1308
01:07:37,800 --> 01:07:39,920
separately with one of the
members of the group.

1309
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:44,280
And then she went onto TikTok
and, like, said that it was the

1310
01:07:44,280 --> 01:07:47,160
soft swinging thing.
But I mean, OK.

1311
01:07:47,160 --> 01:07:49,880
But like, a little, like, spin
the bottle and kissing each

1312
01:07:49,880 --> 01:07:51,400
other.
You're like, when everybody's

1313
01:07:51,400 --> 01:07:54,080
there and, like, consensually
participating.

1314
01:07:54,440 --> 01:07:57,920
That does not seem that
scandalous to me, to be honest.

1315
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:01,200
No, like there would be much,
much worse things.

1316
01:08:01,400 --> 01:08:03,240
Yeah, it's like we all got
married too young because we're

1317
01:08:03,240 --> 01:08:05,840
Mormons and now we're, like,
doing the most innocent, like,

1318
01:08:05,840 --> 01:08:08,640
you know, like experimentation
of all time.

1319
01:08:08,760 --> 01:08:10,840
Like it?
Almost makes me have a wee tear

1320
01:08:11,240 --> 01:08:14,200
because you're just like, oh,
like that.

1321
01:08:14,200 --> 01:08:17,040
I know, right.
That's just like, it's like, so

1322
01:08:17,040 --> 01:08:21,800
sad in a way because they're
just experimenting with feelings

1323
01:08:21,800 --> 01:08:25,240
that they never got the actual
time when you're supposed to do

1324
01:08:25,240 --> 01:08:27,399
that supposed.
But you know what I mean?

1325
01:08:27,399 --> 01:08:32,120
Like in normal developmental
terms, you explore things like

1326
01:08:32,120 --> 01:08:34,040
you play spin the bottle in high
school.

1327
01:08:34,040 --> 01:08:37,000
But.
Yeah, I know isn't.

1328
01:08:37,640 --> 01:08:41,240
That kind of like cute and sort
of sad the way it all turned

1329
01:08:41,240 --> 01:08:43,600
out.
That's it's just indicative of a

1330
01:08:43,600 --> 01:08:46,439
shame based culture as well.
Definitely.

1331
01:08:46,880 --> 01:08:49,200
Exactly.
All right, Well, we've got one

1332
01:08:49,200 --> 01:08:52,000
more member of dad talk to talk
about.

1333
01:08:52,120 --> 01:08:54,680
Yep.
And I think we kind of have

1334
01:08:55,040 --> 01:08:56,960
nothing but good things to say
at this point.

1335
01:08:57,279 --> 01:08:59,120
Yeah.
Mr. Connor Shining.

1336
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:00,920
We love Connor.
We love Connor.

1337
01:09:01,240 --> 01:09:07,000
He is been nothing, at least on
the looks of things, as

1338
01:09:07,000 --> 01:09:12,880
supportive and honesty.
He was like, you know, so if I

1339
01:09:12,880 --> 01:09:15,880
come to you with something that
I'm like dying to share and you

1340
01:09:15,880 --> 01:09:18,960
know, it's like, I know I have
this ear of support or

1341
01:09:18,960 --> 01:09:23,319
understanding or you know, that
you would also say you're being

1342
01:09:23,319 --> 01:09:25,800
kind of a bitch right now or but
in a kind way, you know what I

1343
01:09:25,800 --> 01:09:27,319
mean?
Because accountability is a big

1344
01:09:27,319 --> 01:09:29,960
part of good relationship.
Yeah, it absolutely is.

1345
01:09:29,960 --> 01:09:32,040
And I would tell you that I've
never had to tell you that

1346
01:09:32,040 --> 01:09:33,520
because you've never been a
bitch.

1347
01:09:34,240 --> 01:09:37,200
Like, you know, we could have
that conversation if necessary.

1348
01:09:37,439 --> 01:09:42,439
It could definitely happen.
And like, you know, I see that

1349
01:09:42,439 --> 01:09:43,960
in Connor.
To me, he's like calling a

1350
01:09:43,960 --> 01:09:47,359
girlfriend, like a trusted,
really good girlfriend.

1351
01:09:47,359 --> 01:09:50,240
Seems like a safe space.
Yes, that you can be your messy

1352
01:09:50,240 --> 01:09:53,520
self with and, you know, be
like, oh, like I'm spiraling.

1353
01:09:53,920 --> 01:09:57,160
And he has held her with nothing
but care and love.

1354
01:09:57,160 --> 01:10:02,200
Like when she phoned and after
the Zach occasion and she was on

1355
01:10:02,200 --> 01:10:05,560
the phone and he was really
upset, really elevated.

1356
01:10:05,960 --> 01:10:08,560
And he was just like, that's not
OK.

1357
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:11,920
Like I've got you.
Like I it's like making me want

1358
01:10:11,920 --> 01:10:14,280
to cry.
Honestly, like it was perfect.

1359
01:10:14,280 --> 01:10:17,240
He validated her feelings.
He was in her corner.

1360
01:10:17,240 --> 01:10:19,040
Like he was offering his
support.

1361
01:10:19,040 --> 01:10:20,680
Like he was.
Yeah, he was great.

1362
01:10:20,880 --> 01:10:24,880
He never once said calm down.
Yeah, because that's worked to 0

1363
01:10:24,880 --> 01:10:25,800
percent.
Oh.

1364
01:10:25,800 --> 01:10:29,200
My God, Or I just like hate it
when like somebody is, you know,

1365
01:10:29,200 --> 01:10:31,280
upset and they're venting about
something and they're like,

1366
01:10:31,280 --> 01:10:32,880
well, have you considered their
point of view?

1367
01:10:32,960 --> 01:10:35,560
It's like, maybe there's a time
for that, but not when someone's

1368
01:10:35,560 --> 01:10:38,840
coming to you like and they've
just been like, you know, shit

1369
01:10:38,840 --> 01:10:42,120
on and you're like, well, but
what about me defending my guy

1370
01:10:42,120 --> 01:10:45,080
friend here?
You're like, no, stop it, yes.

1371
01:10:45,120 --> 01:10:46,920
It's like the clap, the clap,
the face.

1372
01:10:46,920 --> 01:10:50,240
Clap needs to.
Happen because yeah, you when

1373
01:10:50,240 --> 01:10:53,800
we're all elevated, we know
we're not thinking clearly.

1374
01:10:53,960 --> 01:10:57,080
We know we may be sparrowling,
we know we're maybe not being

1375
01:10:57,080 --> 01:11:01,400
our best rational self, but
validation goes a long way.

1376
01:11:01,400 --> 01:11:05,000
And that's not to validate or
behaviors or unfair things, but

1377
01:11:05,000 --> 01:11:08,240
just to be like, I can see why
you're really sad right now.

1378
01:11:08,240 --> 01:11:11,320
Absolutely.
Just listen and validate and my

1379
01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:14,160
God, at least get the whole
fucking story before you jump in

1380
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,600
and tell someone they're wrong
about being upset.

1381
01:11:16,640 --> 01:11:20,240
Yes and he also.
This seems like a no brainer but

1382
01:11:20,240 --> 01:11:22,000
I think with so many
distractions.

1383
01:11:22,520 --> 01:11:24,920
But he also was giving her his
full attention.

1384
01:11:24,920 --> 01:11:26,400
Yes.
So important.

1385
01:11:26,400 --> 01:11:28,240
Full.
Attention, like listening to

1386
01:11:28,240 --> 01:11:30,840
every word, like are you good?
Are you OK to go?

1387
01:11:30,920 --> 01:11:34,720
You know, and that's, it seems
so sad that we're celebrating it

1388
01:11:34,720 --> 01:11:37,400
so highly.
But the bars.

1389
01:11:37,400 --> 01:11:39,840
In Hell.
But yeah, it's just like, like

1390
01:11:39,920 --> 01:11:44,160
when I saw that call, I was
like, Connor is like my best

1391
01:11:44,160 --> 01:11:48,480
girlfriends totally that space
where I can trust and flail and

1392
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:53,120
do the ugly cry and the things
and, you know, because I don't,

1393
01:11:53,120 --> 01:11:57,160
I don't know that I've I felt
that with male companions in my

1394
01:11:57,160 --> 01:11:59,320
life.
You know, I always felt a little

1395
01:11:59,320 --> 01:12:01,480
performative with the good
Mormon, you know?

1396
01:12:01,520 --> 01:12:02,560
Yeah.
Facade.

1397
01:12:02,560 --> 01:12:06,120
Or like maybe you feel like you
have that and then you realize

1398
01:12:06,120 --> 01:12:09,400
it's kind of a performative
thing because they want to fuck

1399
01:12:09,400 --> 01:12:11,480
you.
Yes, that can happen too.

1400
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:15,840
There is that like little
important faction there?

1401
01:12:15,840 --> 01:12:19,120
Yeah, it's like, oh, you were
listening, but really you just

1402
01:12:19,120 --> 01:12:22,040
wanted in my drawers.
Yeah, yes, although I mean, it

1403
01:12:22,040 --> 01:12:24,480
can be and both, right?
It doesn't have to be either.

1404
01:12:24,480 --> 01:12:25,880
Yeah.
So yeah, Connor.

1405
01:12:25,880 --> 01:12:29,040
And I also want to shout out to
Connor, like cuz season 1, like

1406
01:12:29,040 --> 01:12:32,080
we heard this thing with him,
like maybe being on Tinder and

1407
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:36,200
talking to other people.
And you know, huge shout out to

1408
01:12:36,400 --> 01:12:40,120
making a mistake, owning your
mistake, taking accountability,

1409
01:12:40,840 --> 01:12:43,080
working through it.
And like huge props to both of

1410
01:12:43,080 --> 01:12:45,600
them for working through that
issue and coming out stronger on

1411
01:12:45,600 --> 01:12:47,080
the other side.
Really good job you guys.

1412
01:12:47,680 --> 01:12:52,840
A major major double high 5 and
you know, I think that has

1413
01:12:52,840 --> 01:12:56,680
continued in his support of her
career.

1414
01:12:56,680 --> 01:13:01,400
I mean, he's always there
supportive, you assume of the

1415
01:13:01,400 --> 01:13:05,600
kids and that situation, but
even just you know that that

1416
01:13:05,760 --> 01:13:08,280
famous moment that everybody's
talking about where he's like,

1417
01:13:08,320 --> 01:13:10,840
this is your where she was
having a breakdown like a mom

1418
01:13:10,840 --> 01:13:13,640
guilt.
Which for a thing that's so real

1419
01:13:13,640 --> 01:13:16,760
and related, so.
Real because like you will feel

1420
01:13:16,760 --> 01:13:18,640
bad for things.
You don't need to feel bad about

1421
01:13:18,640 --> 01:13:20,040
it and you can see it in your
friends.

1422
01:13:20,040 --> 01:13:23,680
But when it's yourself, you're
like, I am the worst mother ever

1423
01:13:24,000 --> 01:13:26,560
and he was like, babe, it's your
moment to shine.

1424
01:13:26,840 --> 01:13:28,880
We're good.
Our family is happy.

1425
01:13:29,080 --> 01:13:33,160
Yes, that was really like
literal goosebumps right now.

1426
01:13:33,160 --> 01:13:34,640
I.
Know same.

1427
01:13:35,080 --> 01:13:37,800
Did you ever see the real with
her little daughter?

1428
01:13:37,800 --> 01:13:39,920
She'd taken her phone.
My kids would do this when they

1429
01:13:39,920 --> 01:13:42,400
were younger, too.
And she was making a little

1430
01:13:42,400 --> 01:13:46,120
video and she was just like,
living in New York is the best

1431
01:13:46,120 --> 01:13:49,080
because you get to walk to
school and you get to do.

1432
01:13:49,080 --> 01:13:51,520
This and you.
I didn't see that, but that's

1433
01:13:51,520 --> 01:13:54,040
adorable.
It just must have been like, you

1434
01:13:54,040 --> 01:13:57,400
know, because you're coming from
Utah County to to Manhattan and

1435
01:13:57,400 --> 01:13:59,480
you're probably thinking, Oh my
God, is this good for my

1436
01:13:59,480 --> 01:14:00,480
children?
It was.

1437
01:14:00,840 --> 01:14:02,880
It's so good for your.
Children so cute and a credit to

1438
01:14:02,880 --> 01:14:05,680
their parenting because kids
feel safe and secure.

1439
01:14:05,720 --> 01:14:08,520
You know, and that's the thing,
like kids are resilient as long

1440
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:10,560
as they have that safe, secure
attachment.

1441
01:14:10,560 --> 01:14:13,000
Yeah, so.
And they see their parents being

1442
01:14:13,000 --> 01:14:14,480
the flight attendant.
The calm.

1443
01:14:14,480 --> 01:14:16,360
Amazing.
Yeah, so cool.

1444
01:14:16,680 --> 01:14:20,200
Shredded to Connor.
And also like him doing magic

1445
01:14:20,200 --> 01:14:24,440
tricks, like fucking adorable.
Like stop, you're so cute.

1446
01:14:24,440 --> 01:14:25,200
It's.
Killing me.

1447
01:14:25,320 --> 01:14:30,080
I love that, like where they're
both leaning into like just the

1448
01:14:30,080 --> 01:14:32,480
things that they love because I
think when you get married and

1449
01:14:32,480 --> 01:14:36,040
kids come along, those things
are really given up a lot of the

1450
01:14:36,040 --> 01:14:40,080
time, sometimes out of necessity
or thinking that you have to.

1451
01:14:40,240 --> 01:14:43,600
I love this life for them.
Dancing and magician like 100.

1452
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:46,440
Percent Oh my God shine on
Whitney and Connor.

1453
01:14:46,440 --> 01:14:47,000
We love you.
We.

1454
01:14:47,160 --> 01:14:50,280
Love you.
And you know, I think overall

1455
01:14:50,280 --> 01:14:55,120
what we're seeing here is people
have a capacity for change,

1456
01:14:55,440 --> 01:15:01,880
either bad change or good change
or or, you know, highlighting

1457
01:15:01,880 --> 01:15:04,120
they have the capacity doesn't
mean they always embrace that

1458
01:15:04,120 --> 01:15:06,320
opportunity, but it's there,
it's.

1459
01:15:06,320 --> 01:15:09,080
There, and we've seen at least
some of these men rise to the

1460
01:15:09,080 --> 01:15:10,880
occasion.
Yes, that's great.

1461
01:15:10,880 --> 01:15:14,120
That gives me some hope.
Some hope we have a little shred

1462
01:15:14,120 --> 01:15:16,840
left I like that love it OK, so
we've.

1463
01:15:16,880 --> 01:15:19,120
Ended on a high note.
We have I.

1464
01:15:19,160 --> 01:15:21,280
Feel some joy, Oh my God.
Me too.

1465
01:15:22,280 --> 01:15:24,840
I'm sitting in this little
dungeon kind of filled with.

1466
01:15:24,880 --> 01:15:27,360
Like hope and gratitude.
Like we've like, we've like

1467
01:15:27,360 --> 01:15:31,560
managed to like suppress our
panic and like claustrophobia

1468
01:15:31,560 --> 01:15:34,520
for the last hour or so or.
Through the shit, yeah.

1469
01:15:35,520 --> 01:15:38,240
I'm like, we're going to get
fresh air anytime.

1470
01:15:38,240 --> 01:15:41,800
It's going to be fine.
But yeah, I mean, we hope that

1471
01:15:41,840 --> 01:15:47,400
that dog talk, oh for the slip
dad talk doesn't survive, but we

1472
01:15:47,400 --> 01:15:51,360
hope that the likes, you know,
of Connor and Chase continue to

1473
01:15:51,360 --> 01:15:53,560
thrive.
Yeah, and we do hope that all

1474
01:15:53,560 --> 01:15:57,280
these other men with shitty
behaviors can actually do some

1475
01:15:57,280 --> 01:16:00,960
deconstruction and maybe move a
little closer to the side of

1476
01:16:00,960 --> 01:16:03,680
like, hope and good behavior.
And hopefully having those good

1477
01:16:03,680 --> 01:16:07,200
friends in their lives will
support that change so.

1478
01:16:07,640 --> 01:16:09,280
It's important.
Good times.

1479
01:16:09,760 --> 01:16:11,240
All right, Well, shall we wrap
it up?

1480
01:16:11,480 --> 01:16:14,360
We shall wrap it up.
OK, God, I miss you already.

1481
01:16:14,360 --> 01:16:16,920
I feel like I've seen you like
for all of this, like the last

1482
01:16:16,920 --> 01:16:18,520
four days, and it's been
marvelous.

1483
01:16:18,520 --> 01:16:20,840
Melissa and I have lived
together this weekend, yeah.

1484
01:16:21,000 --> 01:16:23,160
We've been in each other's
pockets, which has been kind of

1485
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:25,240
fantastic.
It's been so lovely.

1486
01:16:25,440 --> 01:16:27,400
There's nobody else's pocket.
I would rather be.

1487
01:16:27,400 --> 01:16:29,360
Oh my God, climb.
Into my pocket, baby.

1488
01:16:29,360 --> 01:16:31,880
Let's.
Do this be an offer that I might

1489
01:16:31,880 --> 01:16:34,440
actually take you up on right
now, so be careful.

1490
01:16:35,880 --> 01:16:38,760
I warmly welcome it.
All right, friends, if you

1491
01:16:38,760 --> 01:16:41,960
enjoyed our episode, as always,
please go ahead and give us a

1492
01:16:41,960 --> 01:16:45,720
five star rating on Spotify or
Apple Podcasts.

1493
01:16:45,960 --> 01:16:47,680
Drop us a comment.
Do you agree?

1494
01:16:47,680 --> 01:16:50,120
Do you disagree?
What do you want to hear next?

1495
01:16:50,720 --> 01:16:53,520
If you would like to write us a
review, that would be fantastic.

1496
01:16:53,520 --> 01:16:56,520
And definitely it only takes a
second to hit that follow button

1497
01:16:56,520 --> 01:17:00,800
that helps us a lot on Spotify
or Apple Podcasts or even both.

1498
01:17:01,280 --> 01:17:03,960
You could go for it and do both.
Oh my God.

1499
01:17:03,960 --> 01:17:06,560
We would be so so.
Grateful and we're grateful to

1500
01:17:06,560 --> 01:17:09,240
all of you salty hoes and you
salty Bros out there.

1501
01:17:10,480 --> 01:17:13,680
Keep listening and stay salty.
We're so grateful for you all.

1502
01:17:13,720 --> 01:17:15,800
We'll see you soon.
Bye bye.