I Don't Know if MomTok Can Survive This...

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Hello.
Hello.

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Welcome back to another episode
of The Salty Hose.

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My name is Claire.
And I'm Mel and.

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Then I went to say in together
for the Salty.

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Hose.
We'll just say it.

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Two times just for emphasis.
You can never have enough salty

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hose in your life.
You can never have enough salty

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hose.
That is very very true.

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Well, we normally do a little
check in here, but we've got a

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lot to talk about today.
Well, it's been quite a week,

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not just for you, not just for
me, but for the entire cast of

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The Secret Lives of Mormon
Wives.

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So we're just going to like dive
in.

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Yeah, I think so.
And I think we should probably

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say what they said on the call
is call me daddy, call her

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daddy, call her daddy.
I ruined the whole plan, which

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let's just just just apologize
in events today for how many

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mistakes I am going to make in
my speech.

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But yeah, they did a time stamp
on the show because they said, I

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just want to give the time stamp
so that if anything else

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happens, it's not that we were
avoiding talking about it.

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It's just like we didn't know.
Well, something else did already

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happen.
And we're going to get into it.

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Amazing.
Yep.

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So anything we don't discuss
that happens between now and

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when this comes out is purely
incidental.

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I mean, should we time stamp
this?

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I feel like we should.
So it is Friday, March 27th

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around 10:30 in the morning.
It is.

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So if anything breaks from now
on, we we didn't know about it.

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We did not.
Might have to do a follow up.

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That is totally fine by me.
Yeah, OK, well, I mean, let's

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dive right in.
And one thing I wanted to circle

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back to because we talked about
it in a previous issue or

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episode.
Wow.

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OK, we're both there this
morning.

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Oh my God, y'all, it's been a
week.

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We're looking for all the grace
and compassion today, and

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because, yeah, we are, we're on
the.

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Struggle bus Yes, please forgive
us that's.

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OK.
We're very human.

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We are human.
My eye is still not functional,

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but it's getting better.
You're poor wee eyeball.

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And I don't think you've slept
in a week or more.

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I think that's true and so I
have weird eyelash.

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Things, that's right.
Yeah, we're both on the eye

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struggle bus today.
We really are.

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I need Pauline it ASAP.
Help.

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We're podcasting from the eye
clinic today, friends.

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After your eyes.
Oh, boy.

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Yeah.
OK.

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So I wanted to circle back to
Layla.

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So we talked in our episode
about plastic surgery, about

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some of ours, secret lives of
Mormon wives, friends.

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Yeah.
And I remember I said that I

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think one of them has an eating
disorder.

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And I didn't want to name it
because I don't, you know, want

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to call people out unless I have
real information, of course.

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Well, now we know that, you
know, it was Layla, that she

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looked really concerningly thin
and unhealthy over the last few

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seasons, and she has come out
and said that she does indeed

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have an eating disorder.
Yeah.

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So all our care and compassion
to you, Layla.

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I hope that you're getting
treatment for that and that

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things are improving.
I feel really sad for you.

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Oh so.
Sad when we were chatting

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earlier we had said like I just
she's just a wee baby like she's

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she she's a child.
She's actually younger than two

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of my children and.
Oh my God, she has.

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Children and you know, I just.
Like, ick for her.

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Yeah, me too.
I mean, she looks like she's

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about 18.
And I mean, in some scenes I

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feel like she kind of acts like
she's about 18.

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Yeah, too.
But it's understandable, right?

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100% like, and, you know, trying
to parent at that age and I, I

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can't even imagine single
parenting at that age.

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You know, it's a lot.
And I, I kind of have jokingly,

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but seriously will say to my
children every once in a while,

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Oh my God, I'm so sorry.
Like because I was such a young

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mom and I didn't know what I was
doing.

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And I'm sure that had negative
impacts on you because I was

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very young myself.
And you know, we, we, we kind of

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have joke about it, but like,
I'm being serious too.

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And I see that in the context of
Mormonism, it's just like, get

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married, have babies, have
babies.

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And there's not really any
thought for, you know, how she

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is feeling.
Yeah.

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And how she can be a mother and,
you know, the tools that you

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need or the shock that it is in
your life to become a parent.

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I mean, it's great, but it's
shocking.

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Clearly, I have a lot to say on
this.

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Sorry that that was surprising.
Don't know where that came.

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From Don't be sorry, I think
this is a really important

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strand.
And I think that I don't have

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the experience of being a young
mother.

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I had my son when I was 33, but
I do feel like I had some

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experience with growing up in in
the Mormon church.

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And the way that I think it, it
kind of cuts your childhood

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short in a negative way, right?
Because you're expected to sort

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of go from being a kid to like
the 12 to 18 young men's and

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young women's where they're just
like prepping you and like

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really, you know, hitting,
getting married in the temple

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and, or serving a mission
really, really hard.

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And, and so it's, it's kind of
this weird tension where there's

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some aspect of being
infantilized in the Mormon

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church, but at the same time,
you're being pushed from the age

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of 12 to be thinking about
getting married.

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And we've talked before about
how how young they do often get

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married.
And so you're, you're kind of

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skipping this era of self
development and self-awareness.

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I think that starts to come
online in your late teens and

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early 20s or even through your
whole 20s. 100% just having the

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space to be able to do that and
then you add children into the

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mix.
It's like it's, it's a lot.

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And I, I have a very close
friend who, I mean, she was

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married right out of high school
graduation, even younger than I

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was, you know, and so, yeah,
there's no, there's no time to

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get to know who you are and at
the root of a lot of disease

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like you're.
Fine.

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I just said that backwards.
You're absolutely fine.

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Disorders.
Oh my God, my brain today.

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But at the root of a lot of it
is control, right?

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Like obviously Layla is plunged
into this world of focus on body

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and you know, she is the only
person of color in the seat or

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in the show, which is a whole
other layer as well.

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Even the time that she was
talking about her hair and you

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know, how difficult it was to
really get things to work for

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her hair because everybody was
just using like, white people

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approaches and it wasn't
working.

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And I just think, you know, it
obviously goes much deeper than

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appearance, although that can be
a facet of it and it can be

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control.
It can be a way to cope all of

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those things.
And yeah, just so achy for her.

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Yeah, I think that issue of
control is a really good thing

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to bring up.
I think if you feel like you

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can't control things in your
life, well, guess what?

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You can control not eating
right.

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And it's really sad.
You know, when we saw, like she

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said, I think that she was
addicted to tirzepatide.

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Yeah, which, let's be clear,
that's not an addictive

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substance, but kind of the
compulsion to inject it or the

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compulsion to be really skinny,
that does have like an addictive

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piece to it.
So that's one of the I, there's

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no way I'm going to remember the
the name of it, but what is the

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little acronym where they use
for those kind of drugs?

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Yeah.
So there's there's two, the

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original which would be marketed
under Ozempic or Wigovi.

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Yeah, that is a GLP 1 analogue.
GLP, one that's not even a

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whatever I called it, but yet,
yeah.

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No, it's also called
semaglutide, and what it

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basically is, is it is a peptide
hormone.

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Your body makes GLP one
naturally, it binds to GLP 1

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receptors, and it does a whole
host of things.

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Maybe we could do an episode
about this.

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I think that would be really
cool actually, but I'll just

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keep it short right now.
The drugs are the same hormone,

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but they've been altered in like
3 ways, basically to make the

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hormone persist in your body for
a long time.

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So GLP one that you make
endogenously, it's broken down

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really, really quickly.
But this exogenous, like

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biologically altered GLP one,
the drugs, they will stick

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around in your body for about a
week.

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Wow.
Yeah.

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Long.
Yeah.

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Because they've been engineered
to break down really slowly.

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And so that is what results in,
like, feeling full and

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apparently, like, food noise
being dialed down and so forth.

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Tirzepatide is another separate
drug.

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It also binds to the GLP one
receptor, but it also binds to

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GIP 1 receptor.
So it's a it's a similar but

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even more effective weight loss
drug.

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And are those drugs primarily
developed for the treatment of

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diabetes?
That's where they they came from

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originally, but then it was, you
know, noticed that they have a

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really big effect on body
weight, which is amazing, right?

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Because there's been, you know,
I'm sure you remember 1,000,000.

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Drugs like that have purported
to help you lose weight, and

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some of them do.
Do you remember fun Fun?

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No.
Yeah, well, it's like not a a

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good drug.
You're like funny thought.

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It's good.
Don't.

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Yeah, but it will make you lose
weight, right?

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But these actually seem to be
really miracle drugs.

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Side effects are are pretty rare
and very mild for the most part.

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Now, that's not to say that, you
know, an individual person

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couldn't get side effects, but
they're really miracle drugs, I

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think.
And there's some pretty good

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evidence that they are
potentially effective for

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treating a whole host of
addictions.

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Not.
Just food, yeah, that could be

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very beneficial because I Yeah,
I think we could do a whole

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episode on this yeah.
I love to have, like your

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scientific knowledge behind it
because I think a lot of people

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just know them and the result,
but nothing about them, how they

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interact with the body, what the
original intent was, what they

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could do.
And I think that's helpful to

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know because see, I have so many
questions tonight.

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I have to like, bite my lips
because I'm like, but what about

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this?
So OK, let's we will come back

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to that.
Yeah, another episode.

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Let's put.
A pen in that I don't want to

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like go too far down like the
rub up hole, but just, you know,

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to say that like any drug, even
though it's I think really a

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huge societal positive, it can
be misused.

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Yes, And you know, Layla was was
was doing that right.

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It's kind of an easy shortcut to
losing weight.

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Yeah.
And she, she shared that her

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weight and it is highly
concerning.

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So she has the same height as
you.

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She's 5 foot 10.
She was £99.

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Yeah, that's that, that is
worrying for her health, for her

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heart.
Oh yeah, those kind of health

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implications for sure.
Yeah.

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So that's ABMI of 14.2.
Just for reference, the healthy

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range is 18.5 to 25 S Her
lightest healthy weight would be

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129 lbs.
So she's 30 lbs underweight in

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those scenes, yeah.
I just hope that like, you know,

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this could be true of a lot of
the stories and the secret

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lives.
Like you could argue this.

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What are we Season 3 or?
4.

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I'm 44, like it is so different
from season 1, like it's

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completely different stories.
And of course they're, you know,

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all at this sort of very pivotal
time in life where the stories

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are going to evolve, things are
going to change.

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But I hope that it's just not
taken as, you know, good TV,

226
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,960
right?
You know, like in terms of an

227
00:12:07,960 --> 00:12:11,320
intervention treatment, whatever
that looks like.

228
00:12:11,320 --> 00:12:15,000
Like, obviously I can't say,
nobody can say what's best for

229
00:12:15,000 --> 00:12:19,320
her, but I hope it just wasn't
for TV, you know, and that

230
00:12:19,880 --> 00:12:24,440
somebody, somebody somewhere,
her friend, like her family, I

231
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:26,440
don't know, she doesn't.
Well, she does talk about them a

232
00:12:26,440 --> 00:12:28,760
little bit, but somebody will
just, you know.

233
00:12:29,080 --> 00:12:30,560
Help.
Yeah.

234
00:12:30,560 --> 00:12:34,040
I mean, I think she talked about
struggling with eating disorders

235
00:12:34,040 --> 00:12:36,600
since before the show, so for
quite a long time.

236
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:40,840
But I don't think that the show
probably helped, right?

237
00:12:40,840 --> 00:12:43,200
Because suddenly you are in the
spotlight, right?

238
00:12:43,200 --> 00:12:45,800
You have a microscope on you,
your body, everything people are

239
00:12:45,800 --> 00:12:48,600
seeing on TV, which let's be
clear, is just a small part of

240
00:12:48,720 --> 00:12:50,960
their their actual life and
their actual story.

241
00:12:51,400 --> 00:12:54,040
And I think you're seeing it to
some extent with many of these

242
00:12:54,040 --> 00:12:58,880
women where like some underlying
issues are being exacerbated by

243
00:12:58,880 --> 00:13:01,840
being in the public eye.
I think we see it with Jessie,

244
00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:03,560
right?
I mean, I think her struggles

245
00:13:03,560 --> 00:13:06,480
with with self esteem and stuff
like that definitely predated

246
00:13:06,480 --> 00:13:09,920
the show.
But you know, I, I think you

247
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,360
might have listened to that
interview on call her Daddy.

248
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:13,600
Did you listen to the whole
thing?

249
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,480
I did and, and just talking
about like her facial plastic

250
00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,840
surgery, which we talked about
before and her looking back and

251
00:13:20,840 --> 00:13:23,520
just regretting it and like
seeing herself on TV and being

252
00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:25,600
like what I was.
I was so beautiful.

253
00:13:25,600 --> 00:13:28,560
Like what was I even doing?
And at the time she probably was

254
00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:33,320
self loathing to a high level.
And then she's looking back and

255
00:13:33,320 --> 00:13:36,360
being like, wait, I was I was
actually more than fine.

256
00:13:36,720 --> 00:13:39,400
Gorgeous.
Yeah, that's.

257
00:13:39,440 --> 00:13:41,120
Yeah.
It's heartbreaking.

258
00:13:41,120 --> 00:13:44,280
There was actually an article I
just saw this morning.

259
00:13:44,720 --> 00:13:47,440
I think Heather Gay contributed
to it.

260
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,080
And it was, I think it's an
Allure magazine.

261
00:13:50,080 --> 00:13:53,440
And it's called something along
the lines of what is what is a

262
00:13:53,440 --> 00:14:00,880
Mormon wife look like now?
And I just had a moment of wow,

263
00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:06,120
you know, because I had a lot of
the the secret lives women.

264
00:14:06,600 --> 00:14:10,960
And when you think of sort of
when we were in that age group,

265
00:14:10,960 --> 00:14:16,000
what a Mormon, Mormon woman
quotes looked like it.

266
00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:19,360
I mean, it's massively
different.

267
00:14:19,360 --> 00:14:22,160
So different.
It was cap sleeves and Dynese

268
00:14:22,240 --> 00:14:25,280
modesty Shields.
Shorts down to your knees.

269
00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:28,720
One piece bathing suits.
It was like, and even when you

270
00:14:28,720 --> 00:14:32,160
look at sister missionaries back
then, like they were literally

271
00:14:32,160 --> 00:14:35,560
like dressing in potato sacks.
It looked like with dog Martin

272
00:14:35,560 --> 00:14:41,760
boots like it was so you know
this push towards hide yourself

273
00:14:42,000 --> 00:14:46,160
like and and now it's just a
complete 180.

274
00:14:46,360 --> 00:14:48,520
Oh yeah?
Did I tell you I had an

275
00:14:49,040 --> 00:14:53,400
encounter with the sister
missionaries on campus last

276
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,720
week?
Would tell you more about that.

277
00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,120
Well, I was just walking out to
my car after a campus event that

278
00:15:00,120 --> 00:15:04,400
you organized, and one of them
kind of came scurrying up.

279
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,600
She was like, do you know where
parking services are?

280
00:15:07,840 --> 00:15:09,800
Oh yes, that's right, they got.
Booted.

281
00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:13,760
Yeah, I was like, I I do.
And she's like, can we walk

282
00:15:13,760 --> 00:15:15,280
there?
Our car got booted.

283
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:18,080
But I was.
So it took me a minute for my

284
00:15:18,080 --> 00:15:21,080
brain to sort of process what
was happening because she had

285
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:23,880
the missionary name tag on.
Yeah, but she was just dressed

286
00:15:23,880 --> 00:15:25,840
in jeans and AT shirt.
Yeah.

287
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:28,000
And I was like, wait, what?
Wow.

288
00:15:28,000 --> 00:15:29,840
Yeah.
So like, things have certainly

289
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:31,880
evolved.
So much.

290
00:15:32,000 --> 00:15:33,920
Yeah.
And so I was like trying to

291
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:35,680
explain where it was.
And then I was like, you know

292
00:15:35,680 --> 00:15:38,440
what, I'm leaving right now.
It'd be faster for me to just

293
00:15:38,440 --> 00:15:40,520
drive you over there.
Do you want just, like, a quick

294
00:15:40,520 --> 00:15:41,560
ride?
It'll take two minutes.

295
00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:42,480
And she was like, Oh my God,
yes.

296
00:15:42,480 --> 00:15:44,320
Well, she didn't say Oh my God,
of course, but.

297
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,440
Oh gosh, golly gosh, yes.
So you know her?

298
00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,440
Yeah.
Three other sister missionaries

299
00:15:51,440 --> 00:15:53,760
all piled into my car, and I
drove them over to parking

300
00:15:53,760 --> 00:15:54,520
service.
Oh.

301
00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,680
My God, I'm so glad they came
across you though because

302
00:15:58,040 --> 00:16:00,320
they're just so vulnerable.
Oh, I mean, they're little

303
00:16:00,320 --> 00:16:04,720
babies, you know, and for
whatever feelings we might have

304
00:16:04,720 --> 00:16:09,080
about the Mormon, like, these
are just sweet girls just trying

305
00:16:09,080 --> 00:16:10,840
to, like, fix a problem that
they had.

306
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,600
That is just they should not.
Have like, yeah, I know.

307
00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:17,680
I was like, why do you think
that you got booted?

308
00:16:17,840 --> 00:16:20,040
She was like, well, I think the
missionaries that had the car

309
00:16:20,040 --> 00:16:22,400
before us got a parking ticket
and never paid it.

310
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:24,440
I was like, Oh yeah, that
that'll do it.

311
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,440
I can speak from experience that
that will do it, yeah.

312
00:16:28,720 --> 00:16:30,880
Although I do believe parking
services are a little.

313
00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:32,200
Harsh.
Oh, they're terrible.

314
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:34,080
I have a little vendetta with
them right now.

315
00:16:34,080 --> 00:16:35,800
Which I'm.
Yeah, I'll tell you later.

316
00:16:35,840 --> 00:16:38,840
I'm gonna get food in.
Well, no anyway.

317
00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,520
Well, we'll get into that.
They assigned me a ticket for a

318
00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:45,280
car that wasn't mine and refused
to to change it, so that's cool.

319
00:16:45,400 --> 00:16:49,800
That's takes it like a large
degree of of mind bending to do

320
00:16:49,800 --> 00:16:51,920
that by this like that's
incredible.

321
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:54,000
Yeah, they wanted me to prove
that I don't own the car.

322
00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:56,480
I'm like, how can I prove I
don't own a car that I don't

323
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:58,560
own?
Other than saying I don't own

324
00:16:58,560 --> 00:17:01,280
that car.
It was also enough also at a

325
00:17:01,280 --> 00:17:02,920
campus I've literally never been
to.

326
00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:06,359
I don't even know where it is.
So let's say you're good cars.

327
00:17:06,359 --> 00:17:08,480
You don't own places you haven't
been.

328
00:17:09,440 --> 00:17:11,760
Melissa is everywhere.
You're like the Holy Spirit

329
00:17:11,760 --> 00:17:13,359
pretty much everywhere and
nowhere.

330
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:17,880
All right, let's bring it back
to our secret lives of Mormon

331
00:17:17,880 --> 00:17:19,800
wives.
Why did we talk about, oh, the

332
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:21,119
sister missionaries?
That's right.

333
00:17:21,119 --> 00:17:24,599
And like the dress standards
that have changed and just sort

334
00:17:24,640 --> 00:17:27,200
of, you know, some of the, the
freedom and license that they

335
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:30,120
they have that we didn't.
And, and to be clear, I think

336
00:17:30,120 --> 00:17:31,480
that's great for them.
Yeah.

337
00:17:31,720 --> 00:17:34,520
They're sort of making their own
path with this.

338
00:17:34,520 --> 00:17:39,040
Yes, is is good, I guess,
although I guess it could go

339
00:17:39,120 --> 00:17:41,960
either way because then you sort
of worry about it kind of

340
00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,360
sweeping under the rug some of
the systemic problems that we've

341
00:17:44,360 --> 00:17:47,000
talked about before.
I mean, obviously these these

342
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:51,320
women's experiences and the Real
Housewives experiences, this is

343
00:17:51,320 --> 00:17:54,480
not representative of the
average Mormon.

344
00:17:54,480 --> 00:17:59,000
Woman in Utah, Yeah, I can't say
any of that was ever my

345
00:17:59,000 --> 00:18:01,520
experience.
And and yet it just worried.

346
00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,360
Like, I love the side of it
where they are confident and

347
00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:08,320
they're claiming their bodies
and their self and they're not

348
00:18:08,640 --> 00:18:12,040
inserting the Dynese modesty
Shields into their beautiful

349
00:18:12,040 --> 00:18:16,040
clothing.
And then to me, it also feels

350
00:18:16,040 --> 00:18:21,680
like a whole extra other thing
that they have to worry about to

351
00:18:21,680 --> 00:18:26,120
be a perfect Mormon wife because
the whole idea of being a Mormon

352
00:18:26,120 --> 00:18:31,080
wife is so traumatizingly
steeped in perfection that

353
00:18:31,080 --> 00:18:34,800
that's just a whole other layer.
So now on top of all the other

354
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:38,440
things and Oh my God, there's
just so many places to go like

355
00:18:39,080 --> 00:18:42,840
Zach with his, you know, passive
aggressive comments to Jen

356
00:18:42,840 --> 00:18:44,720
about, but they want their
mother.

357
00:18:44,720 --> 00:18:46,560
And you know, so you have to be
a perfect mother.

358
00:18:46,560 --> 00:18:49,480
You have to be a perfect wife.
You have to make money, but not

359
00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,000
make money as well because you
don't want to emasculate your

360
00:18:52,000 --> 00:18:53,680
husband.
But if you do make money, then

361
00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:56,600
they have to step in it.
But now on top of it all, you

362
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,760
have to produce tons of babies
really young and be perfect

363
00:18:59,880 --> 00:19:02,480
looks wise and you're the body
has to be perfect right after a

364
00:19:02,480 --> 00:19:06,880
baby and perfect perfect.
Like it gives me anxiety even

365
00:19:06,880 --> 00:19:10,520
thinking about that because you
know, it's, it's just another

366
00:19:10,520 --> 00:19:12,560
layer.
So in addition to being the

367
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:16,280
perfect Mormon wife, you have to
look like a perfect Mormon wife

368
00:19:16,280 --> 00:19:18,320
now too, whatever that is.
So.

369
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,000
Yeah, it's 100%.
It's a lot.

370
00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,720
It's a lot.
Oh my goodness, these poor, poor

371
00:19:23,720 --> 00:19:27,240
women.
And when you take it to sort of

372
00:19:27,240 --> 00:19:30,320
people in the real world, shall
we say, I mean obviously you

373
00:19:30,320 --> 00:19:32,560
know Jesse runs a very
successful business.

374
00:19:32,880 --> 00:19:37,080
I knew some of them do work, but
you could maybe argue on some

375
00:19:37,080 --> 00:19:42,360
level that if your full time job
is just going to events and

376
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:46,560
always being in glam and looking
good, that's such an unrealistic

377
00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:48,680
standard.
Yes, except for the average

378
00:19:48,680 --> 00:19:52,120
human. 100% I think that's a
fantastic point.

379
00:19:52,120 --> 00:19:56,000
I mean, I can imagine like 20 or
30 something Mormon wives

380
00:19:56,200 --> 00:20:00,680
watching this and feeling like
why do I not look like this?

381
00:20:01,160 --> 00:20:06,280
But the reality is that this
takes an enormous amount of time

382
00:20:06,360 --> 00:20:10,080
and money and people and people
like you have people sure like

383
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,240
to put the glam on and whatever,
but even, you know, to maintain

384
00:20:13,240 --> 00:20:17,480
that level of thinness takes
time and or money, right?

385
00:20:17,480 --> 00:20:21,080
So you could do it with the the
GLP drugs, you could do it with

386
00:20:21,080 --> 00:20:24,440
going to Pilates every day.
Fuck you, Chris from Relova's

387
00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,960
blindness again, right?
But but that takes time and

388
00:20:27,960 --> 00:20:29,560
money.
These things are expensive.

389
00:20:29,800 --> 00:20:34,120
OK, so that's unrealistic for a
large number of of people.

390
00:20:34,360 --> 00:20:37,560
And that's not even mentioning
right the plastic surgeries and

391
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:39,800
the procedures like the facial
procedures which.

392
00:20:39,920 --> 00:20:42,840
Are inaccessible to most people.
Yeah, they can't afford them.

393
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:44,840
Or maybe you just don't want
them or that.

394
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:47,280
Yeah.
And the time poverty element

395
00:20:47,280 --> 00:20:50,800
too, I think as well.
Like if you're this young person

396
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:53,960
that has all these children and
maybe you work out the home too.

397
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:58,520
And so you're you still have to
maintain the perfect home, you

398
00:20:58,520 --> 00:21:01,680
know, the perfect sex life with
your husband, the perfect meals,

399
00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:04,920
all the things like when are you
supposed to do any of that?

400
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:07,400
Like it's quite literally
impossible.

401
00:21:07,560 --> 00:21:10,200
Yeah, I mean, I feel like we're
seeing some of that on the show

402
00:21:10,200 --> 00:21:13,240
with poor Michaela, Right.
Oh, my God.

403
00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,400
That's another one my heart just
bleeds for.

404
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,120
And at the beginning, like when
we first met her husband Jace, I

405
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:21,800
was like, oh, he seems like one
of the less problematic ones.

406
00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:26,000
But then when we find out that
he impregnated her at age 16

407
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:28,280
when he was 21.
Yeah.

408
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:31,400
And then we saw him last season
on the show whining about not

409
00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:35,120
getting enough sex.
And it's like this girl who was

410
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,560
sexually abused as a child still
has not even begun to process

411
00:21:39,800 --> 00:21:42,440
what has happened to her, and
you've knocked her up four

412
00:21:42,440 --> 00:21:46,200
times.
Yeah, and it's starting at 1616.

413
00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:49,600
Like she hasn't caught a breath
and it's it's manifesting in her

414
00:21:49,600 --> 00:21:52,800
body like it's coming out and
all her.

415
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,680
Well, she has a an autoimmune
disease, yeah.

416
00:21:55,840 --> 00:21:58,120
Yeah.
And you're just like, wow, that

417
00:21:58,160 --> 00:22:02,400
that mind body connection there.
And his first and foremost

418
00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:05,080
concern is.
Yeah, she's not putting out

419
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:06,600
enough.
Not not enough.

420
00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:10,520
And the expectation that that's
somehow a right when you're

421
00:22:10,520 --> 00:22:14,760
married, I know is deeply
embedded in Mormonism like that.

422
00:22:14,760 --> 00:22:17,520
That's that's one of your
functions.

423
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:23,640
Right as to provide yes, exactly
to be a sex implement.

424
00:22:24,040 --> 00:22:28,680
Basically, I mean, yeah, it's he
to meet you.

425
00:22:28,680 --> 00:22:30,360
And I've had this conversation
many times.

426
00:22:30,800 --> 00:22:35,360
He is the quintessential nice
guy, right?

427
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:39,800
So that gives him scope to do
anything because he thinks he's

428
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,040
a nice guy.
Yeah, and he has a lot of the

429
00:22:42,040 --> 00:22:45,160
phrases down right, a lot of the
the therapy speak or whatever.

430
00:22:45,160 --> 00:22:46,960
And he's encouraging her to go
to therapy.

431
00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,080
But it it also seemed to me like
he really expected that that was

432
00:22:50,080 --> 00:22:53,120
going to be kind of a quick fix.
Yeah, like we went to one

433
00:22:53,120 --> 00:22:54,360
therapy set.
Are you good now?

434
00:22:54,360 --> 00:22:55,640
Right.
Like we've done have sex

435
00:22:55,640 --> 00:22:56,120
tonight.
Yeah.

436
00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:59,280
We've done a month of couples
therapy, right?

437
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:00,880
Like, why isn't everything
better?

438
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,840
And then like, he has a little
temper tantrum because she

439
00:23:05,840 --> 00:23:08,680
doesn't want to have sex.
It's unbelievable.

440
00:23:09,320 --> 00:23:12,200
Wow, yeah, I what is even
happening there?

441
00:23:12,200 --> 00:23:14,360
I am confused.
Are they divorced?

442
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:15,680
Are they not divorced because I
saw?

443
00:23:15,760 --> 00:23:18,320
That like, I think there's this
week, I think they're separated

444
00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:20,920
at this point, Yeah.
And I don't know who knows.

445
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:22,760
Stay tuned.
Stay tuned for that one.

446
00:23:23,520 --> 00:23:24,760
Well, should we move on to
Jesse?

447
00:23:25,360 --> 00:23:28,400
Let's move on to our.
Girl Jesse our girl Jesse Messy

448
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,400
Jesse Messy.
Which I say that with love.

449
00:23:33,160 --> 00:23:36,640
In a in a good way.
Yeah, I I really, I really am

450
00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,560
pulling for Jesse, OK?
I'm not saying that every action

451
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:42,120
she's taken is like top tier.
Yeah.

452
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:44,560
But you know what?
We all make mistakes, right?

453
00:23:44,640 --> 00:23:46,720
She is all of us.
She's all of us.

454
00:23:46,720 --> 00:23:51,440
Messy is OK yes cuz we all are
yeah so.

455
00:23:52,440 --> 00:23:56,680
She is getting divorced.
We found out so Jordan, our

456
00:23:57,160 --> 00:23:59,800
least favorite of dad talk
somehow.

457
00:24:00,480 --> 00:24:02,960
I mean, it's a real race to the
bottom, but the.

458
00:24:02,960 --> 00:24:05,400
World's least favorite?
You could argue, right?

459
00:24:05,400 --> 00:24:07,920
Now, I think everybody hates
Jordan right now, except maybe

460
00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,560
Dakota.
Yeah, he is really.

461
00:24:11,840 --> 00:24:15,120
He has really showed himself.
Or he's really showed.

462
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:18,600
Who he is?
He has like he showed himself to

463
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,320
the world.
Yeah, I mean, he was never

464
00:24:20,320 --> 00:24:23,200
great, but we didn't see enough
of him, I think, in Season 1 to

465
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,160
really appreciate the depravity
and disgustingness of this man.

466
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,320
Like.
You know, we could get all

467
00:24:29,320 --> 00:24:31,800
bitchy and mean and be like,
what does he even look like?

468
00:24:32,120 --> 00:24:33,880
But let's not look.
Shame him.

469
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,040
No, but.
But let's shame everything else.

470
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,040
His character.
Let's shame his his behavior,

471
00:24:38,040 --> 00:24:41,040
his entitlement, his abuse.
Yes.

472
00:24:41,320 --> 00:24:44,920
OK, all right, so let's do that.
So what we found out from call

473
00:24:44,920 --> 00:24:47,880
her Daddy was that Jordan filed
for divorce.

474
00:24:48,080 --> 00:24:53,160
They had agreed not to do that,
but suddenly he ran to file

475
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,400
really quickly.
Yeah.

476
00:24:54,560 --> 00:24:56,680
Tried to put a muzzle on her,
right?

477
00:24:56,680 --> 00:25:00,040
Tried to put a clause in that
she couldn't go on podcasts.

478
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:02,120
Right.
She already had call her daddy

479
00:25:02,120 --> 00:25:05,280
booked before that, but he
clearly didn't want her to speak

480
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:05,920
out.
Yeah.

481
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,680
And listening to that interview,
we can see why.

482
00:25:08,680 --> 00:25:09,320
Oh.
Yes.

483
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:14,360
So I think the biggest bombshell
for me out of that interview was

484
00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:18,480
his involvement with escorts
before the whole Marciano event,

485
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:21,240
which she was aware of before
the whole Marciano event.

486
00:25:21,680 --> 00:25:25,920
And I mean, my hat's kind of off
to her for trying to protect him

487
00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,480
and his reputation, but girl, he
did not deserve that.

488
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:37,160
Especially when we think about
how he responded to her and as

489
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:41,640
everybody is saying, what she
did was not right, but like

490
00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:45,520
there was a much bigger context
and for him to sit and say our

491
00:25:45,520 --> 00:25:49,480
children, well, you know.
Yeah, you were unfaithful, like

492
00:25:49,480 --> 00:25:52,440
telling the whole world, putting
it on camera, like giving

493
00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,640
interviews, all that stuff.
Yeah, well he is hiring escorts

494
00:25:56,640 --> 00:26:00,240
before this and potentially
going to sex parties and we

495
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:01,640
heard.
That as well paying for them

496
00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:03,080
with.
Her money.

497
00:26:03,360 --> 00:26:08,960
Which is like, wow, there.
I I've seen this before.

498
00:26:09,120 --> 00:26:15,480
I saw this in a in an ex partner
of mine who was also an ex

499
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:20,840
Mormon, where there's some kind
of, and this is not a defense of

500
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,800
it.
This is just a wow.

501
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:26,000
I'm kind of observation.
There's like some kind of

502
00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,560
disassociation in their heads
that they're being unfaithful,

503
00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:33,600
that what they're doing is, you
know, quote, UN quote, not

504
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:35,720
right.
But yet they can be like, well,

505
00:26:35,720 --> 00:26:38,160
who are you talking to?
What I mean, he seemed very

506
00:26:38,160 --> 00:26:41,000
jealous and very controlling,
extreme, a hairy guy and

507
00:26:41,000 --> 00:26:45,360
Marciano and all those people,
but yet there's some kind of

508
00:26:45,480 --> 00:26:47,960
disassociation.
It was kind of like Zach when he

509
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:50,520
was shouting at Jen for being at
the chipping deals while sitting

510
00:26:50,520 --> 00:26:53,560
at a gambling table.
Right, you're just gambling away

511
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,200
her money.
Yeah, you're just like, But

512
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:57,760
wait, what?
Like where is this list of moral

513
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:00,720
depravity?
So kissing a person you're

514
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,760
talking to wrong.
Hooking up with a hooker?

515
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,480
OK, you know what I mean.
Two thumbs up, Totally fine.

516
00:27:07,480 --> 00:27:13,480
There's some kind of like
disassociative moral equivalency

517
00:27:14,480 --> 00:27:16,760
reversal.
I don't know.

518
00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:18,800
What is that?
Oh, it's bizarre.

519
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,080
Yeah.
I don't know God.

520
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:25,520
Like, the audacity level of him
being able to and dude knew what

521
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:28,640
he was doing when he's like, our
children will be so disappointed

522
00:27:28,640 --> 00:27:31,640
in you.
Like, that is so yucky and

523
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,080
abusive.
Yeah.

524
00:27:33,080 --> 00:27:37,440
And, you know, meanwhile, he
knows what he's been doing,

525
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,520
right?
Maybe just don't say anything

526
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:41,240
then.
Yeah, I can't.

527
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,640
Maybe.
Just feel like you know what

528
00:27:42,640 --> 00:27:45,560
mistakes were made, let's go to
therapy or I don't want to

529
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,440
continue this relationship.
Let's break up.

530
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:49,200
Both of those are valid
responses.

531
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,680
Those are options.
Yeah but instead what he did was

532
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:55,920
blackmail her, right?
Remember the story where he like

533
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:58,400
had all like the text or
whatever between them?

534
00:27:58,400 --> 00:28:01,360
Like ready to post a TikTok and
every one time they had a

535
00:28:01,360 --> 00:28:03,600
disagreement would be like I'm
posting it to TikTok right now.

536
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,000
I'm going to ruin you.
I'm going to destroy you is.

537
00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,640
Disgusting disgusting and how on
earth could you ever have been

538
00:28:09,640 --> 00:28:14,200
in a marriage with somebody who
does that or is like you.

539
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:17,200
You have an agreement for the
benefit of your children to

540
00:28:17,840 --> 00:28:21,800
about the divorce, but two point
score or look like he had the

541
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,680
upper hand files the divorce
like that is like it's you can't

542
00:28:26,680 --> 00:28:29,520
even compare it to a child
because a child may not be that.

543
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:32,080
Devious, like, yeah.
And then lies to her and said,

544
00:28:32,080 --> 00:28:33,400
oh, I didn't think it would get
out.

545
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,520
And she's like you literally
emailed TMZ.

546
00:28:36,320 --> 00:28:41,200
What, like clearly that's the
dad talk route right now is like

547
00:28:41,360 --> 00:28:43,680
Direct Line to TMZ, Yeah.
Right.

548
00:28:43,680 --> 00:28:45,040
Exactly.
And then lie.

549
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:45,440
Lie.
Lie.

550
00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:46,840
Deflect.
Deflect, deflect.

551
00:28:47,120 --> 00:28:50,680
Like, Oh my God, yeah.
Unbelievable.

552
00:28:50,680 --> 00:28:54,640
And, you know, I feel like the
bombshell, I feel like that was

553
00:28:54,640 --> 00:28:56,320
the bombshell.
We also heard a lot about

554
00:28:56,400 --> 00:28:58,400
emotional abuse and control.
Yeah.

555
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:00,200
I feel like that was less
shocking though because we all

556
00:29:00,200 --> 00:29:03,360
saw it happen on camera.
I mean, I think that was obvious

557
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:06,120
from not even this season.
Yeah, the one before.

558
00:29:06,120 --> 00:29:08,320
Definitely.
Like it you were like, OK,

559
00:29:08,320 --> 00:29:10,320
something is not right here.
He's mistreating her.

560
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:13,400
Yeah, this is emotional abuse.
And and that's, again, we've

561
00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:16,200
talked about this in terms of,
like, Bronwyn on Real

562
00:29:16,200 --> 00:29:18,960
Housewives, Like that's what
he's willing to do on camera.

563
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,800
Just imagine what he's saying to
her off camera. 100% like, like

564
00:29:22,800 --> 00:29:26,160
you think that all the time when
you see these circumstances in

565
00:29:26,160 --> 00:29:29,800
public, you're just like, wow,
you know, not even on TV, but

566
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:32,000
just in public.
You're like, what is happening

567
00:29:32,000 --> 00:29:34,200
behind closed doors?
Like you can only imagine.

568
00:29:34,400 --> 00:29:39,160
Yeah, it's really concerning.
Oh, go ahead.

569
00:29:39,320 --> 00:29:42,360
Sorry.
Her and the hotel part really

570
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:45,200
highlighted that.
I think too, because I don't

571
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,920
know about you, but I was always
like, girl, why are you leaving?

572
00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:51,160
Like that's your big beautiful.
House like that you that you

573
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:54,080
paid for with your money.
Yeah, and like they just

574
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:57,680
recently moved there and you're
just like, but she mentioned in

575
00:29:57,840 --> 00:30:00,640
I keep going to call it call me
call me daddy.

576
00:30:00,760 --> 00:30:04,640
Maybe that's like some some
latent fantasy that's like

577
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,520
stirring in me.
Well, her.

578
00:30:08,520 --> 00:30:09,320
Daddy.
Yeah.

579
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:11,920
We need to find Claire.
Daddy, if you've got to hook up,

580
00:30:11,920 --> 00:30:14,120
let us know, please.
You can text me.

581
00:30:14,960 --> 00:30:18,480
That is horrifying, yes.
So call and call her daddy.

582
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:21,880
She talked about because, you
know, the host kind of alluded

583
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:23,960
to that too.
Like why, why are you leaving

584
00:30:23,960 --> 00:30:25,360
girl?
Like why are you not saying?

585
00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:27,480
And she had said about she was
worried he would have put

586
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:30,680
cameras and stuff and like, Oh
my God, why?

587
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:33,400
Why should you be worrying about
those things in a marriage?

588
00:30:33,440 --> 00:30:36,200
Like, that's kind of horrifying.
It's definitely horrifying.

589
00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:38,560
I'm sad for her that she stayed
as long as she did.

590
00:30:38,560 --> 00:30:40,400
But at the same time, I get it
right?

591
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,240
Like I get sort of, yeah, you do
as well, right?

592
00:30:43,240 --> 00:30:46,320
We're like, we know, girl.
Sort of like the whole the

593
00:30:46,320 --> 00:30:49,680
devil, you know, and like, oh, I
can deal with this and like,

594
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,560
maybe it'll get better and maybe
it's all in my head.

595
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:54,040
Yeah, right.
I mean, that's kind of the

596
00:30:54,040 --> 00:30:57,800
pernicious part about emotional
abuse, is it makes you feel like

597
00:30:57,800 --> 00:30:59,520
you're the one that's broken.
Yeah.

598
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:01,880
And you're the one that's wrong
all the time, because that's

599
00:31:01,880 --> 00:31:03,120
what you're being told all the.
Time.

600
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:06,080
Yeah.
And it's, it's kind of a deep,

601
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:10,040
dark mind fuck because you
oscillate between, Oh my God,

602
00:31:10,040 --> 00:31:13,560
maybe it is my fault.
And and then you withdraw from

603
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:16,280
not only your spice, but your
friends and your people because

604
00:31:16,280 --> 00:31:19,760
you're in this like deep self
examining, like, Oh my God, is

605
00:31:19,760 --> 00:31:22,320
it me?
Like what you know, And then

606
00:31:22,560 --> 00:31:27,080
you'll have moments of fuck no,
it's I see what's happening

607
00:31:27,080 --> 00:31:28,880
here.
But then right back down.

608
00:31:28,880 --> 00:31:31,680
And she alluded to that right
when she said she had mentioned

609
00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:34,000
divorce before and he would kind
of talk her out of it.

610
00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:39,360
And you know it.
It really is just a giant mind

611
00:31:39,560 --> 00:31:41,720
bend.
Like, oh, absolutely.

612
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:44,320
I mean, the part where even
this, this most recent time

613
00:31:44,320 --> 00:31:46,320
where she's like, no, I'm going
to file for divorce.

614
00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,000
And he said you're just not
healed enough.

615
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,400
You're just not healed enough.
Right.

616
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:54,600
Again, you're the broken one.
Like, I'm fine.

617
00:31:54,720 --> 00:31:56,360
You're the one that's broken.
Yeah.

618
00:31:56,440 --> 00:31:59,840
And I'm, I'm sure like that same
dynamic played out again and

619
00:31:59,840 --> 00:32:02,760
again.
And then, you know, it gives me

620
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:07,720
even more empathy or her like
acting out right.

621
00:32:07,720 --> 00:32:11,360
And like, you know, having this
sort of emotional connection

622
00:32:11,360 --> 00:32:13,920
with Marciano, you could totally
see it.

623
00:32:13,920 --> 00:32:17,760
Like this poor woman isn't safe
at all in her marriage.

624
00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,280
No, right.
And finally someone is giving

625
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:23,440
her some attention.
That seems like a little less

626
00:32:24,240 --> 00:32:27,720
disgusting and abusive, right?
It's kind of no wonder, right?

627
00:32:27,720 --> 00:32:30,520
100% Then of course it's self
sabotaging because you're like,

628
00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:33,800
Oh well, yeah, this confirms
that I'm the broken 1 and I'm

629
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:35,720
the one that you know, and
Jordan used that.

630
00:32:35,720 --> 00:32:39,720
You could see it happening.
I'm sure he was almost delighted

631
00:32:39,960 --> 00:32:41,480
when that came like cuz he was
like.

632
00:32:41,480 --> 00:32:44,960
Oh, now I'm not the bad guy.
And now I have this to hold over

633
00:32:44,960 --> 00:32:47,320
her head forever and ever and
ever.

634
00:32:47,720 --> 00:32:51,840
Huge stick to to beat her with
essentially I again, not saying

635
00:32:51,840 --> 00:32:56,280
that it's right what she did,
but I think it's understandable

636
00:32:56,280 --> 00:33:00,040
in those situations where
particularly if you've been with

637
00:33:00,040 --> 00:33:03,840
like a harsh person for a while,
it kind of becomes the normal.

638
00:33:03,840 --> 00:33:06,960
And if I think if you experience
you and I have actually talked

639
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:10,320
about this like dating, if
somebody shows you even like the

640
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:14,600
tiniest degree of tenderness,
you're like, Oh my God, what is

641
00:33:14,600 --> 00:33:18,240
this beautiful moment?
Yeah, you helped me pick

642
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:21,960
something from the floor like,
oh, you know, because you're so

643
00:33:21,960 --> 00:33:24,680
used to harshness.
Yes, and you didn't even realize

644
00:33:24,680 --> 00:33:28,960
you're so used to harshness.
And so, you know, I'm not saying

645
00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:32,280
that that's the right way to go
about it, but Esther Perel has a

646
00:33:32,280 --> 00:33:34,720
really famous Ted talk about
that.

647
00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,240
I think it's called.
I actually have no idea what

648
00:33:38,240 --> 00:33:41,440
it's called, but it's like
something about like why we

649
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:44,720
cheat, why people cheat, but
it's it kind of has like a clip

650
00:33:44,720 --> 00:33:47,160
bait title.
But she goes into the psychology

651
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:52,240
of, you know, it's generally cry
for help or and it doesn't

652
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:56,040
excuse the behavior, but it
contextualizes it and it just

653
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,440
it's classic Jesse.
Situation Oh yeah 100% and I

654
00:34:00,440 --> 00:34:04,200
just want to repeat what you
said just to like bring it home

655
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:08,239
it wasn't right but it is
understandable yeah yeah I mean

656
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:12,520
this poor woman it's.
Because it's not a good place to

657
00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,000
live in to to have that constant
harshness.

658
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:20,520
And like his mood was never
tender.

659
00:34:20,520 --> 00:34:23,880
And I think that the the longer
the show goes on and obviously

660
00:34:23,880 --> 00:34:28,840
it is a show, but I think you
are starting to see some

661
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,840
character treats come I.
And I never thought I would

662
00:34:31,840 --> 00:34:36,639
ever, ever say this, but like,
Connor is kind of coming I for

663
00:34:36,639 --> 00:34:39,280
the win.
I mean, yes, part of that is

664
00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:42,239
lack of competition.
Yeah, but he.

665
00:34:42,480 --> 00:34:46,280
Seems to definitely be the least
problematic man on the show.

666
00:34:46,520 --> 00:34:49,719
Or when his wife is sad, he is
responsive and doesn't try to

667
00:34:49,719 --> 00:34:53,280
blame.
Her yeah he seems very sweet

668
00:34:53,280 --> 00:34:56,880
right I wasn't he didn't go to
the villa right he was like I

669
00:34:56,880 --> 00:34:59,240
just I don't feel good about
that and I'm not going to go I

670
00:34:59,240 --> 00:35:01,160
was like wow hats off to.
You Connor.

671
00:35:01,240 --> 00:35:04,680
Well, and even the way he talks
to Whitney about her career, I

672
00:35:04,680 --> 00:35:06,840
never knew this.
He dudes, it's like a head fund

673
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:10,360
manager.
Yeah, he was like, apparently

674
00:35:11,120 --> 00:35:14,680
out of all the dudes, appears to
have the largest earning

675
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:19,880
capacity of any of them.
So could theoretically, but not.

676
00:35:19,880 --> 00:35:22,600
But in the Mormon world, like
let's remember we are in the

677
00:35:22,600 --> 00:35:25,000
Mormon world.
Women do not work outside the

678
00:35:25,000 --> 00:35:27,960
home, never mind to earn more
money than you.

679
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:33,320
And so out of them all, he could
could be the most standoffish.

680
00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:37,320
And you know, the things he's
saying to Whitney, like your

681
00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:40,200
career, it's just your time.
Like, let's focus on you.

682
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:43,880
Meanwhile, Zach's like, well, I,
they want their mommy.

683
00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,440
I, it's not really fair when he
was like skipping his classes at

684
00:35:47,440 --> 00:35:48,480
Med school.
Oh my God.

685
00:35:48,480 --> 00:35:50,240
Like, you don't skip classes at
Med school.

686
00:35:50,240 --> 00:35:51,240
My God, people.
Will die.

687
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:54,200
I mean it was a tier 4D O school
to be fair.

688
00:35:54,320 --> 00:35:55,960
Like it wasn't even the MD
program.

689
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,000
So are you serious?
Oh yeah, it's a shitty Med

690
00:35:58,040 --> 00:35:59,840
school that yeah, it's barely a
Med school.

691
00:35:59,920 --> 00:36:02,160
Oh, God.
Well, maybe we should be

692
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:06,080
thanking everyone then that the
tea is not going to practice on

693
00:36:06,080 --> 00:36:06,720
humans.
Yeah.

694
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:07,960
Yeah.
I don't.

695
00:36:07,960 --> 00:36:10,960
I would not like to have him as
my eye doctor.

696
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,560
Yeah, exactly.
Oh, God.

697
00:36:14,240 --> 00:36:16,720
I'm so grateful for you and your
your knowledge.

698
00:36:17,720 --> 00:36:22,040
Yes, that is.
That's kind of that's kind of

699
00:36:22,040 --> 00:36:24,520
scary, but yeah.
Wow.

700
00:36:24,760 --> 00:36:26,520
Yeah.
Do you think it's worth

701
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:28,840
mentioning?
I mean, I think this applies to

702
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Michaela and Jesse, but kind of
in different ways.

703
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:40,400
The whole idea of like, it's,
it's almost like sex is used as

704
00:36:40,400 --> 00:36:43,000
this ordering tool.
Yeah.

705
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,160
And so you would imagine more
for Jesse.

706
00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:48,400
It was the reverse of Michaela,
right?

707
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,480
Like in a rejection, not feeling
beautiful, not feeling like

708
00:36:52,480 --> 00:36:55,760
enough for your partner, where
is like, you know, Jace is just

709
00:36:55,760 --> 00:37:00,880
this little thirsty bitch, like
all the time giving her a hard

710
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:02,160
time.
Perfect description.

711
00:37:02,160 --> 00:37:04,200
Yeah.
You're just like God.

712
00:37:04,200 --> 00:37:07,480
It's used as a as a tool, which
is something that women can

713
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:10,600
often be accused of, right.
Just by existing.

714
00:37:11,000 --> 00:37:12,960
Yeah.
Why are you attempting me so.

715
00:37:13,280 --> 00:37:15,280
But.
Oh, yeah, You can't win, right?

716
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:17,400
It's like, why are you tempting?
But also why aren't you putting

717
00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:19,720
out right?
You're like constantly be alone.

718
00:37:20,360 --> 00:37:23,520
Yeah, yeah.
So it's just interesting to see

719
00:37:23,520 --> 00:37:25,240
that.
Approach.

720
00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,560
Well, there's a very
transactional element to it.

721
00:37:28,560 --> 00:37:32,200
It feels like to to their sex
lives and that's gross.

722
00:37:32,320 --> 00:37:34,320
It's it's so.
Gross.

723
00:37:34,400 --> 00:37:36,560
And it's really dehumanizing it
it.

724
00:37:36,560 --> 00:37:41,160
Really is and it's I like the
the that you use the word

725
00:37:41,160 --> 00:37:44,480
transactional.
I, I don't know whether to share

726
00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,400
this or not.
I keep being reminded of a story

727
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:52,200
that a good Mormon wife told me
a very long time ago about her

728
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:59,400
situation and how I think she
kind of suspected something

729
00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:04,880
wasn't quite right, but didn't
really have the the, I don't

730
00:38:04,880 --> 00:38:08,080
know, the words or the just
like, what is my role supposed

731
00:38:08,080 --> 00:38:10,840
to be here in a marriage?
Am I just supposed to be a

732
00:38:10,920 --> 00:38:14,600
vessel for my husband to derive
pleasure from a condom?

733
00:38:14,920 --> 00:38:15,800
Yeah.
A what?

734
00:38:16,000 --> 00:38:17,360
Condom.
A condom.

735
00:38:17,440 --> 00:38:19,680
Oh wow.
Sorry, that's very crude.

736
00:38:19,680 --> 00:38:22,240
No, that's like, so visual and
effective.

737
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,360
But yes, like, you couldn't have
put it better.

738
00:38:25,920 --> 00:38:30,960
And yeah, like, obviously for a
lot of normal women, it's their

739
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:32,680
first experience with sex,
right?

740
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,960
And so, you know, she kept
getting these chronic UTI's.

741
00:38:36,960 --> 00:38:41,200
And I was like, girl did like,
you need to pee and you need to

742
00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:43,880
like, just like, I just don't
know why it's happening.

743
00:38:43,880 --> 00:38:48,360
And, you know, I had shared one
time about how upset her husband

744
00:38:48,360 --> 00:38:52,440
was when one of their babies
started to cry when they were

745
00:38:52,440 --> 00:38:55,720
having sex.
And she was instructed to lift

746
00:38:55,720 --> 00:39:00,680
the baby, nurse the baby, and
turn around so he could what?

747
00:39:00,680 --> 00:39:04,440
Turn her into a cum dump.
Basically is disgusting.

748
00:39:04,440 --> 00:39:05,440
It's so.
Bad.

749
00:39:05,440 --> 00:39:08,440
Oh my God, fuck that.
Guy and I tried to tell her like

750
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,080
that's not.
OK, that's not normal.

751
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:15,680
That's it's supposed to be a,
you know, bonding like you 2

752
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:19,960
together, having a lovely time
and you shouldn't have to feel

753
00:39:19,960 --> 00:39:24,120
like you just need to be
available and that you're sorry

754
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:27,360
that an infant woke up and
needed food.

755
00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,360
I want my.
God, and so I, when I watch this

756
00:39:32,360 --> 00:39:36,880
show and I see how sex is
leveraged in both ways, that

757
00:39:36,880 --> 00:39:38,400
story just kept coming to my
head.

758
00:39:38,400 --> 00:39:45,560
So much of like this really sort
of negative narrative about sex

759
00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:48,080
and Mormonism, right?
Because it's like, until you're

760
00:39:48,080 --> 00:39:51,320
married, No, no, no, no, no, no,
no.

761
00:39:51,840 --> 00:39:54,320
And then you get married and
it's go, go, go, go.

762
00:39:54,640 --> 00:40:00,960
Go go, go right it it goes from
the sin literally next to murder

763
00:40:01,000 --> 00:40:05,760
right to your your duty to like
serve as a sex toy for your

764
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:08,520
husband.
How psychologically can you

765
00:40:08,520 --> 00:40:10,520
pivot like?
That, I mean, it's fucked up.

766
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:13,720
And and also, you're literally a
child.

767
00:40:13,720 --> 00:40:16,960
Sometimes you're 18 or 19 years.
Old or 16 if you're Michaela.

768
00:40:16,960 --> 00:40:19,320
Oh my God, that.
Poor, poor woman.

769
00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:22,720
That's, yeah.
I, I mean, 16.

770
00:40:23,280 --> 00:40:26,960
I just can't help but put it in
the context of my children.

771
00:40:27,200 --> 00:40:28,720
Yeah.
And when you think of them at

772
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:31,480
that age and you're just like,
Oh my God.

773
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,000
Yeah.
Wow, There's a lot.

774
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:38,440
There, there's a lot there.
There's just one more thing I

775
00:40:38,440 --> 00:40:43,000
want to say about Jesse before
we move it on to TFP.

776
00:40:43,600 --> 00:40:48,640
Yeah, the gold.
Yes, she, I think many of us can

777
00:40:48,640 --> 00:40:54,040
relate to what she described,
which is feeling it in her body

778
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,360
before she realized it in her
mind like this, knowing that she

779
00:40:57,360 --> 00:40:59,600
needed to get divorced, that she
needed to leave him.

780
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:05,000
This feeling of not wanting him
to touch her at all, crying

781
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:08,840
after sex because she felt so
violated, right?

782
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:12,080
Just because her whole body was
rejecting this man in this

783
00:41:12,080 --> 00:41:14,960
situation as it should have.
But it took a while for the mind

784
00:41:14,960 --> 00:41:17,040
to catch up.
And I think that's something

785
00:41:17,040 --> 00:41:20,040
that I don't know, it just
should be highlighted because I

786
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:22,960
think that's a common experience
for many of us, this idea of

787
00:41:22,960 --> 00:41:25,520
feeling something in your body.
I can definitely relate to that.

788
00:41:25,800 --> 00:41:31,760
100% also can relate and I mean,
there's a lot of science behind

789
00:41:31,760 --> 00:41:33,240
that, right?
I'm like one of those people

790
00:41:33,240 --> 00:41:36,240
that uses science in a very
broad Melissa tell us the

791
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:41,720
science like in a non specific
branch of science.

792
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:47,400
But there's research, right?
Well, mind body connection,

793
00:41:47,400 --> 00:41:50,000
right?
Like I have done trauma informed

794
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:54,160
courses for teaching yoga and
the nervous system and all those

795
00:41:54,160 --> 00:41:55,840
kind of theories behind that,
right?

796
00:41:55,840 --> 00:41:59,680
And there's a large body of
research that about feeling

797
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:03,960
things in our body that your
body will tell you before your

798
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:05,440
mind essentially if you're
listening.

799
00:42:05,440 --> 00:42:09,280
And it can manifest in all kinds
of things, right?

800
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:11,760
Like.
Heart palpitations, weight loss,

801
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:16,040
weight gain, hair loss, and Yep,
I almost had all gain but not

802
00:42:16,120 --> 00:42:18,080
that.
Heart gain would be nice that.

803
00:42:18,080 --> 00:42:23,000
Would be a nice byproduct, but
but yes, like you and I both

804
00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,040
have experienced all those
things and or that tension or,

805
00:42:27,280 --> 00:42:30,960
you know, crying after things
happen because you're just like.

806
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,080
Yeah, crying after sex, losing
10 lbs in one month, right?

807
00:42:34,080 --> 00:42:35,960
Like because you just stop
eating, Yes.

808
00:42:35,960 --> 00:42:39,280
Yeah, and your wee body is like
literally fighting for survival,

809
00:42:39,280 --> 00:42:42,000
but it doesn't.
It's it's chasing or you think

810
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,800
you're being chased by the
tiger, and the tiger could be

811
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:50,000
your husband or your partner or.
Right and it activates that

812
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:54,200
fight or flight right response.
But also, what are the other two

813
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:56,440
FS?
Freezer fawn.

814
00:42:56,440 --> 00:42:59,040
Freezer fawn.
And the ladies tend to fall into

815
00:42:59,040 --> 00:43:00,520
the fawn, right.
Or the freeze.

816
00:43:00,720 --> 00:43:02,600
Yeah, well, why we stay so long,
right?

817
00:43:02,600 --> 00:43:06,120
Because we're trying to make it
better by fawning after

818
00:43:06,120 --> 00:43:09,080
everybody.
I, I, I was a monumental fawner.

819
00:43:09,120 --> 00:43:12,960
Yeah, yeah.
So yeah, we we go to those

820
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:18,200
spaces and thank you bodies,
like bodies that we criticize

821
00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:21,600
and poke and prod and think are
never enough.

822
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:25,680
Are, you know, they're amazing.
They are amazing and I wanna

823
00:43:25,680 --> 00:43:28,840
make just one comment about what
you just said and it's kind of

824
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:31,680
like similar to the whole body
keeps the score.

825
00:43:31,680 --> 00:43:34,120
Like whatever.
I know what you're getting at.

826
00:43:34,120 --> 00:43:36,960
I actually really don't like the
phrase mind body connection

827
00:43:36,960 --> 00:43:39,760
because biologically your body
is your mind.

828
00:43:39,760 --> 00:43:41,280
Your mind is your body.
It's one thing.

829
00:43:41,280 --> 00:43:43,760
It's not 2 separate things that
we need to integrate.

830
00:43:43,760 --> 00:43:45,000
It is.
It is one thing.

831
00:43:45,560 --> 00:43:48,080
I love that, sorry I cut you
off.

832
00:43:48,240 --> 00:43:50,480
No, no, it's OK.
And I just, I don't like

833
00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,000
dualism, whether it's
supernatural or this idea that

834
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,800
like your brain is just kind of
riding around and your body is

835
00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:57,960
the vehicle.
Your neurons are distributed

836
00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,120
through every single little bit
of your body.

837
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:04,440
So they are the same thing.
I love that you just give me

838
00:44:04,440 --> 00:44:08,920
like a giant epiphany because by
virtue of the fact that they're

839
00:44:08,920 --> 00:44:11,440
calling it a mind body
connection is actually kind of

840
00:44:11,880 --> 00:44:15,080
reinforcing that disconnection.
That's right, that duality where

841
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:19,120
actually no duality is OK.
Let's advocate for rephrasing or

842
00:44:19,160 --> 00:44:23,320
reframing because yeah, I what
is it you said something about

843
00:44:23,320 --> 00:44:26,080
like it's like your body is a
speed vehicle driving around

844
00:44:26,120 --> 00:44:28,520
with.
Right, but that's not how it's

845
00:44:28,560 --> 00:44:30,120
organized.
I love.

846
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,040
That OK let's put a pin in it
another episode every episode I

847
00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:35,920
feel like spawns through it's
like the hydra y'all you cut off

848
00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:38,960
1 head and three more two more
arise in its place so.

849
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,880
We'll never run out of material.
We'll never be done.

850
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:42,120
Nope.
OK.

851
00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:44,600
Are we ready for our girl?
Deep breaths.

852
00:44:44,600 --> 00:44:47,000
Taylor, Frankie Paul.
Yes.

853
00:44:47,280 --> 00:44:48,720
Let's go.
Let's go.

854
00:44:48,960 --> 00:44:51,760
I mean, where, where do we
start?

855
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:54,840
You and I've discussed this
before and we were, I think,

856
00:44:54,840 --> 00:44:58,200
slightly divergent on our views,
but a lot of other things have

857
00:44:58,200 --> 00:45:00,360
come out.
Since then and I think that's

858
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:02,440
OK, we don't have to agree on
everything we can send.

859
00:45:02,440 --> 00:45:05,280
We can just have a nice little
discussion about it and I think

860
00:45:05,320 --> 00:45:07,720
like, let's preface this by
saying there's a lot we don't

861
00:45:07,720 --> 00:45:08,320
know.
Uh huh.

862
00:45:08,640 --> 00:45:12,000
OK so that, you know, video
which was incredibly hard to

863
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:14,280
watch.
Yeah, but I did watch it came

864
00:45:14,280 --> 00:45:15,640
out.
We have several other

865
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:18,080
allegations of domestic
violence.

866
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,840
Yeah, we know that the season of
The Bachelorette has been

867
00:45:20,840 --> 00:45:22,640
cancelled.
I really hope they reversed

868
00:45:22,640 --> 00:45:23,800
that.
I want to see it so bad.

869
00:45:23,880 --> 00:45:25,640
Yeah, I think there's talk that
they are.

870
00:45:25,640 --> 00:45:27,400
Did you see that this week?
Did.

871
00:45:27,400 --> 00:45:30,600
And then I hope that in some
format we do get to watch it.

872
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:34,920
Yeah.
But yeah, I guess we should just

873
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:37,360
say we don't know everything
that's going on.

874
00:45:37,360 --> 00:45:41,600
So some of what we're going to
be saying is speculation, but I

875
00:45:41,600 --> 00:45:43,560
think we can still have a good
discussion.

876
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:46,240
Sort of, yeah.
Placing it in larger context,

877
00:45:46,240 --> 00:45:50,120
not necessarily saying we know,
like, what's happening, but kind

878
00:45:50,120 --> 00:45:52,920
of have a discussion about
domestic violence, yeah.

879
00:45:52,920 --> 00:45:55,520
How men and women relate to each
other, how abuse works, this

880
00:45:55,520 --> 00:46:00,680
kind of thing. 100% and
particularly specific to not

881
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:02,960
Mormonism.
I'm not suggesting A correlation

882
00:46:02,960 --> 00:46:06,640
at all with with Mormonism in
particular.

883
00:46:07,440 --> 00:46:11,680
That said, I think there's maybe
a Utah specific mentality and I

884
00:46:11,720 --> 00:46:15,280
think evidentially speaking,
like it's not just Taylor,

885
00:46:15,280 --> 00:46:17,840
Frankie Paul right there.
There could be other examples.

886
00:46:18,440 --> 00:46:19,680
And I love what you said as
well.

887
00:46:19,680 --> 00:46:23,480
Like we're speaking about this
in a context because no, no

888
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:25,720
shade on her.
She's going through hell right

889
00:46:25,920 --> 00:46:29,760
now and no shade on anybody.
Like we can joke and be like,

890
00:46:29,960 --> 00:46:32,680
oh, your husband's ugly or this
thing's, you know, but like

891
00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,760
these are are are big issues
that are probably just

892
00:46:37,760 --> 00:46:41,480
indicative of all of us.
Could be any of us have been us

893
00:46:41,480 --> 00:46:45,920
at different times.
And you know, they're all just

894
00:46:46,360 --> 00:46:51,760
being played out in these very
young humans, all of them very

895
00:46:51,760 --> 00:46:54,600
young humans.
And it it's upsetting.

896
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,680
And I think one of the things
has really irritated me this

897
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:02,560
week, particularly coming from
like the other Mormon mom

898
00:47:02,560 --> 00:47:05,000
influencers, is all the shade by
her.

899
00:47:05,280 --> 00:47:08,200
Like they're so happy about her
perceived dine fall.

900
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:10,280
And I hate that.
That's gross.

901
00:47:10,400 --> 00:47:11,480
I hate that too.
Yeah.

902
00:47:12,080 --> 00:47:14,280
So that's what not what we're
doing.

903
00:47:14,520 --> 00:47:17,320
Yeah, we're not here to shit on
Taylor, Frankie, Paul at all.

904
00:47:17,320 --> 00:47:20,440
No, not even close.
But we're also not here to

905
00:47:20,440 --> 00:47:22,040
defend domestic violence.
Yeah.

906
00:47:22,760 --> 00:47:23,520
So.
Yeah.

907
00:47:23,520 --> 00:47:26,880
Yeah.
What was your so the video, you

908
00:47:26,880 --> 00:47:30,720
watched that as well?
Yeah, we saw Taylor strangling

909
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:34,760
Dakota, right?
We saw her throw 3 metal bar

910
00:47:34,760 --> 00:47:37,560
stools at him, the last of which
hit her daughter.

911
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,600
Yep, in the head, right?
We heard the screaming, we heard

912
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,600
Dakota trying to calm her down.
And then after the end of the

913
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:48,680
video, we know that, you know,
the sort of altercation

914
00:47:48,680 --> 00:47:51,600
continued in the garage.
The cops were called and she was

915
00:47:51,600 --> 00:47:54,560
arrested for domestic violence.
Which is kind of brings us all

916
00:47:54,560 --> 00:47:56,520
the way back to season 1, right?
Like where it?

917
00:47:56,520 --> 00:47:58,040
Started.
That was the end of Season 1,

918
00:47:58,040 --> 00:47:59,640
right?
We've known that this whole

919
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:00,960
time.
Right.

920
00:48:01,280 --> 00:48:04,200
But not all the nitty gritties.
But like, you know.

921
00:48:04,520 --> 00:48:06,960
Yeah, but we didn't see the
video, right.

922
00:48:06,960 --> 00:48:11,000
So the description I feel like
underplayed what actually

923
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,120
happened.
Yeah.

924
00:48:12,960 --> 00:48:19,480
Or it could be a hook.
It was a very well crafted hook.

925
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:23,000
Sorry, Irish accent.
I can't say that Hook.

926
00:48:23,480 --> 00:48:24,440
I love it.
Hook.

927
00:48:24,920 --> 00:48:25,840
Hook.
I don't know.

928
00:48:25,840 --> 00:48:31,120
I can't like, you know, I just,
I have so many thoughts on

929
00:48:31,120 --> 00:48:34,320
feelings on on feelings,
thoughts on top of feelings.

930
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:37,160
On top of thoughts, on top of
feelings, multi layered.

931
00:48:37,160 --> 00:48:40,480
We don't need to approach this
in an outlined or academic way.

932
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:43,160
Just start talking.
We'll just have a conversation

933
00:48:43,160 --> 00:48:45,840
about this our usual.
Format exactly, but I think it

934
00:48:45,840 --> 00:48:47,280
works.
I think it.

935
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:49,840
Works.
It just it it works.

936
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,240
Read the comment about messiness
it.

937
00:48:52,280 --> 00:48:56,000
It it works.
You know, I just, I have so many

938
00:48:56,000 --> 00:49:00,040
questions, like something you
said stood out to me like that

939
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:03,600
we see on the video Dakota
trying to camera dine.

940
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,920
I did not see Dakota trying to
Cam her dine.

941
00:49:07,520 --> 00:49:10,680
I and again, I'm not dismissing
any of the other stuff,

942
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:12,480
particularly stuff in front of
kids, right?

943
00:49:12,480 --> 00:49:15,080
Like absolutely not condoning or
trying to.

944
00:49:15,080 --> 00:49:16,720
Justify.
I know you're not.

945
00:49:16,720 --> 00:49:22,320
None of that.
I also have experience with a

946
00:49:22,880 --> 00:49:25,720
certain type of man.
Shall we say that?

947
00:49:26,800 --> 00:49:30,160
I mean, and it's not just me,
like I, I think everybody, well,

948
00:49:30,160 --> 00:49:34,400
a lot of people have made the
correlation with the Gabby

949
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:36,680
Petito case.
Did I say her name correctly?

950
00:49:36,680 --> 00:49:42,240
Because I think I kind of messed
that up often where we have the

951
00:49:42,240 --> 00:49:47,160
video of her and her partner,
and she is absolutely like,

952
00:49:47,760 --> 00:49:52,000
unconsolably beside herself.
And so the police officers and

953
00:49:52,000 --> 00:49:54,640
her partner, like, yeah, she's
crazy, right?

954
00:49:54,640 --> 00:50:01,840
And yeah, she's sequestered off
and she is crazy, crazy and made

955
00:50:01,840 --> 00:50:05,120
out to be the bad guy.
And what's missing from the

956
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:08,880
Taylor, Frankie Paul video in
that video is what happened

957
00:50:08,920 --> 00:50:10,520
before that.
Right.

958
00:50:10,520 --> 00:50:12,440
I think we don't know.
I think we have we.

959
00:50:12,480 --> 00:50:14,640
Could never know.
Yeah, I think we have Dakota's

960
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,960
account of that, but I don't, I
don't think we know the whole

961
00:50:18,960 --> 00:50:21,520
story.
And it's, it's more to say like

962
00:50:21,520 --> 00:50:24,120
we could never know even if the
both of them came out and talked

963
00:50:24,120 --> 00:50:25,560
about it, you could never know,
right?

964
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:28,560
Because we're getting their
accounts and we are of what's

965
00:50:28,560 --> 00:50:30,960
happened.
And you know, she's hinting at

966
00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,520
well, I'm gonna come out with my
story.

967
00:50:32,520 --> 00:50:34,840
Nice.
So she she is done with this.

968
00:50:34,840 --> 00:50:37,320
No, that's true.
She did give an interview a

969
00:50:37,320 --> 00:50:41,120
couple years ago saying that she
was the aggressor, OK, Saying

970
00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:43,880
that Dakota did not.
Yeah, you know, at least that

971
00:50:43,880 --> 00:50:46,200
night, right.
Physically abuse her or anything

972
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:47,480
like that.
So she did say that.

973
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:50,440
I don't know, right?
We don't have video of the whole

974
00:50:50,440 --> 00:50:53,320
sort of thing, right.
But I think the story was he

975
00:50:53,480 --> 00:50:55,440
picked her up from a party,
yeah, where she had been

976
00:50:55,440 --> 00:50:57,560
drinking and she wanted to go to
a concert.

977
00:50:57,560 --> 00:51:01,040
They went home to get her ID,
but she was incredibly

978
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:03,320
intoxicated.
And so then he didn't want to

979
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:03,960
go.
Yeah.

980
00:51:04,400 --> 00:51:07,200
Worth mentioning, he's also an
addict in recovery, so he

981
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:10,040
doesn't want to necessarily be
around alcohol, which is very

982
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,880
understandable.
And then, you know, she wanted

983
00:51:13,880 --> 00:51:16,160
to go, he didn't.
And somehow this this

984
00:51:16,160 --> 00:51:19,040
altercation broke out and it
seems like it went on for quite

985
00:51:19,040 --> 00:51:20,520
some time before that video
started.

986
00:51:20,720 --> 00:51:26,280
Yeah, which again is, you know,
could could also indicate a

987
00:51:26,280 --> 00:51:30,400
larger picture.
I just think I see this, I

988
00:51:30,440 --> 00:51:35,480
almost said this semester, I see
in this semester of the Secret.

989
00:51:35,480 --> 00:51:38,480
Lives Secret.
Live Studies.

990
00:51:40,200 --> 00:51:43,480
New course proposal.
All my worlds are blending right

991
00:51:43,480 --> 00:51:45,360
now.
I just into one big beautiful.

992
00:51:45,360 --> 00:51:46,840
Balls.
So it's amazing.

993
00:51:46,880 --> 00:51:50,560
Yeah, it's, it's great.
So this semester, this season,

994
00:51:50,960 --> 00:51:56,560
you know, I also noticed that a
lot of the other women are being

995
00:51:56,560 --> 00:52:02,200
more vocal about what they have
perceived in Dakota and Dakota's

996
00:52:02,200 --> 00:52:05,320
behavior.
And there's just a lot going on

997
00:52:05,320 --> 00:52:09,280
there, which is I think why it's
difficult to take a position.

998
00:52:09,280 --> 00:52:11,720
And also, should we take a
position you know?

999
00:52:12,320 --> 00:52:14,240
Because I don't think we're
taking a position.

1000
00:52:14,240 --> 00:52:16,320
I think we're just talking about
this, right?

1001
00:52:16,320 --> 00:52:18,560
I think we're just sort of
discussing and kind of working

1002
00:52:18,560 --> 00:52:22,120
out ideas, workshopping.
Workshopping this semester,

1003
00:52:22,120 --> 00:52:23,960
yeah.
I mean, I think we've seen

1004
00:52:23,960 --> 00:52:27,280
plenty of kind of problematic
behavior on Dakota's part.

1005
00:52:27,320 --> 00:52:30,360
And once again, it is hard to
tell from these shows because

1006
00:52:30,360 --> 00:52:32,760
they are heavily edited.
It's a show, you know, we see a

1007
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:35,440
very, very tiny glimpse, yeah,
of what's happening.

1008
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:38,960
But, you know, we have, like,
seen him calling Taylor names

1009
00:52:38,960 --> 00:52:41,320
over texts, right?
So we've seen some verbal abuse.

1010
00:52:41,320 --> 00:52:43,000
Anyway.
We've heard Macy's account,

1011
00:52:43,000 --> 00:52:44,320
like, she really doesn't like
him.

1012
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:46,760
Yes, she thinks that he's kind
of verbally abusive, whatever.

1013
00:52:48,200 --> 00:52:51,800
So I think that that is true.
I think Dakota has behaved in a

1014
00:52:51,800 --> 00:52:53,720
lot of sort of bad and toxic
ways.

1015
00:52:54,200 --> 00:52:57,640
And Dakota does not deserve to
be physically assaulted.

1016
00:52:58,360 --> 00:53:00,920
Nobody does, right?
Nobody does.

1017
00:53:01,480 --> 00:53:06,120
And yeah, I maybe I'm just
projecting too many personal

1018
00:53:06,120 --> 00:53:08,480
things on here.
It's understandable.

1019
00:53:08,480 --> 00:53:12,560
So if I may share a.
Story I would love and I'm sure

1020
00:53:12,560 --> 00:53:15,040
our listeners would love for you
to share a story well it's.

1021
00:53:15,040 --> 00:53:17,520
Just it's contextualizing,
right?

1022
00:53:17,520 --> 00:53:21,400
Like this isn't intended as a
trauma dump, but it's more

1023
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,400
contextualizing some of that
attitudes that that go towards

1024
00:53:26,400 --> 00:53:29,960
this.
And I, you know, I haven't come

1025
00:53:29,960 --> 00:53:31,640
to anything decisive or
conclusive.

1026
00:53:31,640 --> 00:53:37,440
Again, it's just thinking about
it all because Taylor is also, I

1027
00:53:37,440 --> 00:53:42,440
mean, just data points, the most
successful person on that show,

1028
00:53:42,920 --> 00:53:45,840
like social media following off
all the things.

1029
00:53:45,840 --> 00:53:47,720
Yeah, she's the breakout *.
Yeah.

1030
00:53:47,720 --> 00:53:51,800
And and, you know, I think that
there's always an attempt to

1031
00:53:51,880 --> 00:53:55,640
take people out who are doing
well, of course, but also like

1032
00:53:55,640 --> 00:53:58,360
she did do it.
So it's, it's not like, you

1033
00:53:58,360 --> 00:54:00,960
know, it's conjectured.
Like there, there is video.

1034
00:54:01,440 --> 00:54:04,600
And I do also find it
interesting the point at which a

1035
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:10,080
person will pull out a video.
You know, it's kind of like, I

1036
00:54:10,080 --> 00:54:15,720
have never loved those Instagram
videos of people recording

1037
00:54:15,720 --> 00:54:17,440
themselves crying.
Oh, yeah.

1038
00:54:17,440 --> 00:54:19,080
And, and some people, like, make
fun of them.

1039
00:54:19,080 --> 00:54:21,200
They're like, so you set up a
tripod.

1040
00:54:22,320 --> 00:54:26,360
Got the lighting perfect right?
Like makeup brushed your hair?

1041
00:54:27,000 --> 00:54:30,400
You know, there's a it's just,
it's very contrived, right?

1042
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:32,920
Because it's like, are you
really filming your breakdown

1043
00:54:32,920 --> 00:54:34,960
moment?
Because when I am having a

1044
00:54:34,960 --> 00:54:38,080
breakdown, my first inclination
is not to video it.

1045
00:54:38,520 --> 00:54:41,760
I like absolutely.
I certainly don't put makeup on.

1046
00:54:41,760 --> 00:54:44,200
I would never want that video.
You know, shared because that

1047
00:54:44,200 --> 00:54:46,480
all look good.
No, like it's just it's not

1048
00:54:46,480 --> 00:54:49,520
where your head goes like you're
kind of captured in your grief

1049
00:54:50,120 --> 00:54:53,760
instead of like turning it into
a show.

1050
00:54:53,760 --> 00:54:57,880
But you know, I have like a
story from someone else in a

1051
00:54:58,080 --> 00:55:02,200
personal story relatable.
You know there's a there's a

1052
00:55:02,200 --> 00:55:04,680
freeze also called reactive
abuse, right?

1053
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,880
I'm not a psychologist.
I have no training in this area.

1054
00:55:08,720 --> 00:55:13,080
I have heard about it, read
books about it, where you're

1055
00:55:13,080 --> 00:55:17,920
seeing the reaction of somebody
after hours, possibly hours and

1056
00:55:17,920 --> 00:55:22,480
hours of some form of abuse,
physical, mental.

1057
00:55:22,840 --> 00:55:30,680
I also think that sometimes part
of abuse can be like, how do you

1058
00:55:30,680 --> 00:55:34,560
free assist?
It's there's a blurred line

1059
00:55:34,560 --> 00:55:37,480
between physical abuse where men
can claim they're just

1060
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,560
restraining someone or, you
know, I'm sorry, my phone is

1061
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:46,800
making all kinds of signs here
because we we have our children

1062
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,080
on emergency breakthrough.
And so the noises, despite

1063
00:55:50,080 --> 00:55:52,120
trying to silence things come
through.

1064
00:55:52,160 --> 00:55:54,560
So I apologize for everything.
OK, yes.

1065
00:55:54,560 --> 00:55:57,200
All good.
That's so nice of you to check.

1066
00:55:57,200 --> 00:55:59,320
Thank you.
This is why we have emergency

1067
00:55:59,320 --> 00:56:05,160
breakthrough.
Yes, so, so yeah, there you the

1068
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,960
hours, like literally in some
circumstances, hours proceeding

1069
00:56:09,320 --> 00:56:11,360
and then you're capturing
someone's breaking point, which

1070
00:56:11,360 --> 00:56:15,480
I think they came out and said
was the case with Gabby Petito,

1071
00:56:15,480 --> 00:56:16,520
right?
Like that's right.

1072
00:56:16,640 --> 00:56:19,680
They captured this moment not of
her being just crazy out of

1073
00:56:19,680 --> 00:56:24,080
nowhere, but like after hours,
maybe even days of just this

1074
00:56:24,080 --> 00:56:26,440
constant, like poking, poking,
poking.

1075
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,360
And so I'm open to the video of
Taylor, Frankie, Paul.

1076
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:33,160
Again, not that it was right,
but being part of a larger

1077
00:56:33,160 --> 00:56:34,680
picture like this.
Yeah.

1078
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:37,600
Can I also say there is the
phenomenon and again, I'm not a

1079
00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,240
mental health professional, so
maybe I'm not even saying this,

1080
00:56:40,240 --> 00:56:43,520
right, but there is this.
There are relationships that can

1081
00:56:43,520 --> 00:56:46,880
be essentially a dual role
relationship where both people

1082
00:56:46,880 --> 00:56:48,840
are abusers and both people are
victims.

1083
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:52,120
Now I am not saying that that is
the case because I do not know,

1084
00:56:52,200 --> 00:56:54,800
but I'm saying that is another.
It's another thing that can

1085
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:58,840
happen 100% and in their case,
like it's clear, really not very

1086
00:56:58,840 --> 00:57:02,000
healthy.
Well, I think we can all agree

1087
00:57:02,000 --> 00:57:05,360
on that is that this is a very
toxic relationship.

1088
00:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,880
Outside of those videos, yeah,
just the dynamic, the, the push

1089
00:57:08,880 --> 00:57:11,000
pull.
And you can tell they're both

1090
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,560
just, like, love me, love me I
hate you, Like, yeah, like,

1091
00:57:14,560 --> 00:57:15,840
positive things aren't
happening.

1092
00:57:15,840 --> 00:57:18,120
I don't want you, but no one
else can have you either, right?

1093
00:57:18,120 --> 00:57:20,480
Like that on both of their
parts, right?

1094
00:57:20,480 --> 00:57:22,440
Yeah.
Yes, I mean, there's, there's

1095
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:27,440
not a good dynamic there, but I,
I actually had a relationship

1096
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:31,760
with a person and I'm kind of
ashamed to say this and I would

1097
00:57:31,760 --> 00:57:33,920
not be caught by this in the
future.

1098
00:57:34,840 --> 00:57:36,960
And at least I don't think or
don't intend to be.

1099
00:57:36,960 --> 00:57:42,840
But when I started dating this
person, they told me repeatedly

1100
00:57:42,840 --> 00:57:45,720
over and over and over again,
which is the red flag too,

1101
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,160
because it was like trying to
reinforce a story that wasn't

1102
00:57:48,160 --> 00:57:52,760
true about an allegation of
abuse that they had faced.

1103
00:57:54,200 --> 00:57:59,560
But it was framed in.
She slapped me across the face

1104
00:57:59,560 --> 00:58:02,920
and ripped my clothes off my
body because she was such a

1105
00:58:02,920 --> 00:58:06,560
raging wench.
And I was told there were

1106
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:10,040
pictures of the ripped shirt.
And, you know, so you're like,

1107
00:58:10,040 --> 00:58:12,760
Oh my God, like, that's, that's
horrifying.

1108
00:58:13,200 --> 00:58:14,760
I'm so sorry that happened to
you.

1109
00:58:14,920 --> 00:58:18,560
That's well.
So you're like, OK, you're

1110
00:58:18,560 --> 00:58:22,040
telling me this story about the
these egregious things this

1111
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:27,200
woman did to you and you owned a
little bit of the argument.

1112
00:58:27,320 --> 00:58:32,680
So, you know, they said I, I, I
did this thing like I, I kicked

1113
00:58:32,680 --> 00:58:35,160
an inanimate object and I
shouldn't have done it.

1114
00:58:35,160 --> 00:58:40,680
And I own it.
And so that story is like, oh,

1115
00:58:40,680 --> 00:58:42,800
wow.
Like you were both having an

1116
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:45,920
argument.
Terrible things happened, you

1117
00:58:45,920 --> 00:58:48,400
kicked in a door, but she
physically abused you.

1118
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:53,600
So I come to find out leader a
key component of the story that

1119
00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,120
this man left out.
What a shocker.

1120
00:58:56,800 --> 00:59:04,120
No, in that let's just say they
kicked to smithereens a

1121
00:59:04,880 --> 00:59:06,600
receptacle that would hold a
child.

1122
00:59:07,120 --> 00:59:12,240
Oh no, the child was not in the
receptacle at the time, but in

1123
00:59:12,240 --> 00:59:15,200
the room.
So that's a really big part of

1124
00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,720
this story that kind of changes
everything, right?

1125
00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:20,680
It does change everything.
And I think in in Utah, I don't

1126
00:59:20,680 --> 00:59:24,000
know where this took place, but
one of the one of the charges

1127
00:59:24,000 --> 00:59:26,880
against Taylor, Frankie Paul is
like not just hitting her child

1128
00:59:26,880 --> 00:59:29,360
with the chair, but the fact
that the child is, is witnessing

1129
00:59:29,360 --> 00:59:31,280
physical abuse.
That's actually child abuse.

1130
00:59:31,280 --> 00:59:34,600
Exactly.
And even if they're a baby, I

1131
00:59:34,600 --> 00:59:38,880
mean, again, neither of us are
psychologists, but we know that

1132
00:59:38,880 --> 00:59:42,400
zero to six are formative years.
And you know, you know that from

1133
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,880
being parents, right?
And so, you know, there can be

1134
00:59:45,880 --> 00:59:51,200
key even even like to take it to
a different place like Jesse and

1135
00:59:51,200 --> 00:59:53,640
Jordan, right?
There was like key factors.

1136
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:56,400
Left out of the story.
That then you go, huh?

1137
00:59:56,400 --> 01:00:00,720
And again, I'm not accusing
Dakota of anything he did or did

1138
01:00:00,720 --> 01:00:03,000
not do.
I'm just saying I have

1139
01:00:03,000 --> 01:00:07,760
experience of a.
Story where this woman was

1140
01:00:07,760 --> 01:00:12,320
presented like a monster.
And you know, I can't say that I

1141
01:00:12,320 --> 01:00:14,520
would have reacted any
differently than to slap

1142
01:00:14,520 --> 01:00:18,520
somebody if my, I felt my like
baby was in danger.

1143
01:00:18,520 --> 01:00:21,400
Not even a child, but like a
little baby, you know?

1144
01:00:21,440 --> 01:00:22,720
That's terrifying.
Yeah.

1145
01:00:22,760 --> 01:00:25,840
And so again, not suggesting
slapping or hitting someone is

1146
01:00:25,840 --> 01:00:28,880
that we're OK.
It's how you face it really.

1147
01:00:28,880 --> 01:00:31,920
Well, it's not OK, but it's
understandable, right?

1148
01:00:33,520 --> 01:00:39,360
And leader with this person.
There was also an event, shall

1149
01:00:39,360 --> 01:00:45,080
we say, between the two of us
where I ended up with bruises,

1150
01:00:45,160 --> 01:00:49,840
but it was framed in the light
of I was protecting myself.

1151
01:00:50,280 --> 01:00:54,200
Just to give some stats here, as
we know I'm like 5-10.

1152
01:00:54,480 --> 01:01:01,400
I'm probably around 140 pints.
This person was 6 foot 4 and 280

1153
01:01:01,400 --> 01:01:04,560
pints.
So I say that not to be like

1154
01:01:04,560 --> 01:01:08,520
they were a brood of a human,
but that if we're really looking

1155
01:01:08,520 --> 01:01:12,720
at if if I was posing any kind
of threat, which I did not put

1156
01:01:12,920 --> 01:01:15,720
my hand anywhere near them in
any way, shape or form.

1157
01:01:16,320 --> 01:01:18,720
If you were having to be
restrained where there's that

1158
01:01:18,720 --> 01:01:21,600
kind of difference between
stature.

1159
01:01:21,800 --> 01:01:25,360
Like, yeah, there's.
Could be some questions asked

1160
01:01:25,360 --> 01:01:30,760
there and after like it was a
very bad argument because I had

1161
01:01:30,840 --> 01:01:33,360
seen some correspondence on
their phone.

1162
01:01:33,360 --> 01:01:37,200
Shall we say that they, you
know, probably shouldn't have

1163
01:01:37,200 --> 01:01:40,080
been doing and this is this is
how it all started.

1164
01:01:40,520 --> 01:01:44,840
And at the time, one of their
children was asleep in our

1165
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:49,720
house, but on a different level,
a different level, asleep, so

1166
01:01:49,720 --> 01:01:53,240
not observing.
And they kept saying to me, how

1167
01:01:53,240 --> 01:01:55,440
dare you bring this up in front
of a minor child?

1168
01:01:55,440 --> 01:01:58,560
And I was like, wait, what?
Right, the child's asleep

1169
01:01:58,560 --> 01:02:00,520
downstairs, we can have an
argument and.

1170
01:02:00,520 --> 01:02:03,840
Also, you know, I appear to be
the person pinned on the floor

1171
01:02:03,840 --> 01:02:06,720
right now, not you so but you
know what I mean.

1172
01:02:06,720 --> 01:02:12,640
But he his commentary on that
was he was trying to cami dine.

1173
01:02:12,640 --> 01:02:15,240
And I think that's why I get so
when I hear Dakota was trying to

1174
01:02:15,240 --> 01:02:19,640
cami dine like was he or was he
actually pouring fuel on the

1175
01:02:19,640 --> 01:02:24,440
fire to what could could really
have the emphasis on the could

1176
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:28,760
beforehand?
And when this all happened in my

1177
01:02:28,760 --> 01:02:32,240
circumstance, he went to walk
off and I, I, I grabbed his

1178
01:02:32,240 --> 01:02:33,960
shirt.
I'm just like, no, you don't get

1179
01:02:33,960 --> 01:02:36,480
to walk off.
And he ripped his arm and his

1180
01:02:36,480 --> 01:02:40,000
shirt ripped.
Guess what happened next?

1181
01:02:41,240 --> 01:02:42,800
The video.
He pulled out his phone.

1182
01:02:42,800 --> 01:02:45,920
My shirt is ripped.
You did it just like that other

1183
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,480
woman to me.
You ripped my clothing off me,

1184
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:50,640
which is where I was like, wait
a minute.

1185
01:02:50,640 --> 01:02:52,200
I see a correlation.
Yeah.

1186
01:02:52,400 --> 01:02:55,560
Ding, Ding, Ding.
You know, so like I say, that

1187
01:02:55,560 --> 01:03:00,040
was intended to be a trauma
dump, but to be like a, you

1188
01:03:00,040 --> 01:03:04,720
know, it's easy to say a woman
is crazy and that things can

1189
01:03:04,720 --> 01:03:08,200
look a certain way.
My question is always like, and

1190
01:03:08,200 --> 01:03:10,520
what was happening beforehand?
Maybe nothing.

1191
01:03:10,520 --> 01:03:15,400
Maybe, you know, she really is
quite a violent person and I

1192
01:03:15,400 --> 01:03:18,320
need some anger management.
That could also be true.

1193
01:03:18,760 --> 01:03:21,480
But, you know, as we've said,
we're talking about this more

1194
01:03:22,120 --> 01:03:26,080
like contextually.
And I think in Utah in

1195
01:03:26,080 --> 01:03:30,160
particular, there is this kind
of pervasive idea of crazy

1196
01:03:30,160 --> 01:03:32,880
women.
Yeah, sorry, I am taking just a

1197
01:03:32,880 --> 01:03:34,920
second to process here.
I'm not sure I heard your last

1198
01:03:34,920 --> 01:03:38,720
two sentences because I am
sitting here incandescent with

1199
01:03:38,720 --> 01:03:42,040
rage and just horror on your
behalf.

1200
01:03:42,040 --> 01:03:46,400
So what I heard was that you
called a man out for his bad

1201
01:03:46,400 --> 01:03:49,640
behavior and he physically
abused you and then accused you

1202
01:03:50,040 --> 01:03:52,040
of physical abuse.
Yeah.

1203
01:03:52,120 --> 01:03:57,040
Yes.
I, I mean, I, I, I knew this

1204
01:03:57,040 --> 01:04:02,720
already, but hearing you tell it
like that is I have no words.

1205
01:04:02,920 --> 01:04:04,720
I am.
I am physically shaking with

1206
01:04:04,720 --> 01:04:07,720
anger right now.
Well, and I am so like, I don't

1207
01:04:07,720 --> 01:04:09,840
mean to no.
No, no, stop, stop, stop.

1208
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:12,880
I'm not going.
Back into Mormon wife mode I'm.

1209
01:04:12,920 --> 01:04:17,440
Sorry you do not apologize and I
am also not trying to center my

1210
01:04:17,440 --> 01:04:19,840
feelings about this.
I'm simply describing the

1211
01:04:19,840 --> 01:04:22,680
emotional reaction that I'm
having to hearing about your

1212
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:25,520
physical abuse.
And I feel the love from that.

1213
01:04:25,520 --> 01:04:27,720
That makes sense.
Yeah, I just wanna stop.

1214
01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:31,600
Not to like center my feelings,
but just to underline that this

1215
01:04:31,600 --> 01:04:33,600
is not okay.
It's.

1216
01:04:33,600 --> 01:04:35,640
Really not.
It's disgusting.

1217
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,560
It's horrifying.
I think this person should serve

1218
01:04:38,560 --> 01:04:40,880
time.
I do too, not just for me, but

1219
01:04:40,880 --> 01:04:42,840
what I know they've done before
to other people.

1220
01:04:43,040 --> 01:04:44,840
Because it doesn't happen in
isolation.

1221
01:04:45,000 --> 01:04:46,200
It doesn't.
No.

1222
01:04:46,800 --> 01:04:49,680
Like, like people are who they
are.

1223
01:04:49,680 --> 01:04:52,120
And it's thank you for that, by
the way.

1224
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:58,360
And, you know, I just think
it's, it's like, can we talk

1225
01:04:58,360 --> 01:05:02,520
about how long after that event
it took me to get it straight in

1226
01:05:02,520 --> 01:05:05,880
my head?
Like, we're talking months.

1227
01:05:05,880 --> 01:05:08,480
Yeah.
You know, and thank God, finally

1228
01:05:08,640 --> 01:05:10,960
about six months after that it
was done.

1229
01:05:11,400 --> 01:05:14,160
And, you know, I think people
will always say things like, oh,

1230
01:05:14,160 --> 01:05:16,600
if that ever happened to me, I'd
be at the outdoor immediately.

1231
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:20,080
I'm sure I would have said that.
Too sure, but people it's, it's

1232
01:05:20,080 --> 01:05:23,480
hard to to know how you would
respond because it's not an

1233
01:05:23,480 --> 01:05:24,960
isolated incident.
No, right.

1234
01:05:24,960 --> 01:05:27,080
It is part of a pattern, I'm
sure.

1235
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,880
The emotional abuse, well, I
know the emotional abuse

1236
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:31,800
preceded the physical abuse.
Financial.

1237
01:05:31,800 --> 01:05:35,960
Abuse, financial abuse, all, all
verbal abuse, like, all right.

1238
01:05:35,960 --> 01:05:38,920
And and, you know, kind of like
what we were talking about with

1239
01:05:38,920 --> 01:05:43,120
Jesse, when you're so deep in
it, it is sometimes really

1240
01:05:43,120 --> 01:05:46,080
difficult to see your situation
accurately.

1241
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:51,040
That is so beautifully put.
You know, because you just get

1242
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,160
to the point where it's so
stacked.

1243
01:05:53,400 --> 01:05:57,040
Yeah, that you, the only way I
can describe, and we were

1244
01:05:57,040 --> 01:05:59,520
together for quite a few years,
is you.

1245
01:05:59,640 --> 01:06:03,040
You just don't know if you're up
dying sideways or backwards.

1246
01:06:03,360 --> 01:06:06,480
It is just all a scramble in
your brain.

1247
01:06:06,520 --> 01:06:09,840
Yes, because you know, and we've
seen this in Jordan like no

1248
01:06:09,840 --> 01:06:12,400
interpret it this way.
This is my interpretation of it.

1249
01:06:12,400 --> 01:06:13,880
So this is the.
Story right.

1250
01:06:13,880 --> 01:06:15,960
You're wrong.
Your feelings are wrong.

1251
01:06:16,000 --> 01:06:17,880
Your body is wrong.
All of it's wrong.

1252
01:06:17,880 --> 01:06:20,120
All of you is wrong.
I'm the only one that knows

1253
01:06:20,120 --> 01:06:22,800
what's happening.
And, and I mean it, it sounds

1254
01:06:22,800 --> 01:06:24,880
like it would be so easy to
dismiss just sitting here

1255
01:06:24,880 --> 01:06:26,920
talking about it, but it's not
when that's the reality.

1256
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:29,440
You're living day in and day
out, every minute of every day,

1257
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:31,520
you know, being constantly
criticized.

1258
01:06:31,520 --> 01:06:34,480
Yeah, it's, it's really actually
difficult to break out of that

1259
01:06:34,480 --> 01:06:38,320
even a little bit mentally and
really, you know, take stock of

1260
01:06:38,320 --> 01:06:40,520
where you are.
And that.

1261
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,480
Yes, exactly.
And remembering as well that

1262
01:06:45,080 --> 01:06:47,320
people don't tend to behave like
this in week 1.

1263
01:06:48,240 --> 01:06:51,800
Well, no, of course not, because
people can hide who they are for

1264
01:06:51,800 --> 01:06:55,200
some amount of time, yes.
Because obviously, sure, when

1265
01:06:55,200 --> 01:06:57,920
people say things like we'll
just walk away, you're like,

1266
01:06:57,920 --> 01:07:00,400
well, sure, like at at that
point you could.

1267
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,680
But, and it's even more
difficult in Taylor and Dakota's

1268
01:07:04,680 --> 01:07:07,760
case because they share a child.
Like thank God I didn't share a

1269
01:07:07,760 --> 01:07:09,160
child.
With this person because.

1270
01:07:09,520 --> 01:07:12,080
That's a whole other really
difficult layer.

1271
01:07:12,080 --> 01:07:14,320
Like, you know, you and I have
both been divorced.

1272
01:07:14,320 --> 01:07:17,240
They're the agonizing part of
that are kids, right?

1273
01:07:17,240 --> 01:07:19,360
Like cuz you're like, oh, what's
it going to do to that?

1274
01:07:19,360 --> 01:07:21,960
Like that's always your worry.
Of course it rips you apart.

1275
01:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,080
It really does.
And it's, you know, so there's

1276
01:07:26,080 --> 01:07:30,080
so many layers, but I just, I
think culturally, again, I'm

1277
01:07:30,080 --> 01:07:35,320
not, I'm not blaming the faith
of Mormonism, but I'm, I'm, I am

1278
01:07:35,800 --> 01:07:40,160
asking for accountability to the
cultural mentality of the

1279
01:07:40,160 --> 01:07:42,280
purpose of women, the role of
women.

1280
01:07:42,520 --> 01:07:45,400
You're not ever supposed to get
upset, right?

1281
01:07:45,840 --> 01:07:49,440
And if there's any degree of
upset, then again, why at that

1282
01:07:49,440 --> 01:07:54,960
moment are you taking a phone
ITE why are you not being in the

1283
01:07:54,960 --> 01:08:00,240
situation to actually try to
maybe offer comfort?

1284
01:08:00,240 --> 01:08:04,560
Like, you know, I I I don't
know, I don't have an answer,

1285
01:08:04,600 --> 01:08:07,720
you know, but like, he should
have went and held her.

1286
01:08:07,720 --> 01:08:09,240
I mean, she was Harlan Stools
Adams.

1287
01:08:09,240 --> 01:08:11,880
So that would be hard.
But yeah, you know, I think it's

1288
01:08:11,880 --> 01:08:16,600
just so much bigger than what
happened.

1289
01:08:16,680 --> 01:08:23,200
And and also thanks to Jesse, we
know, like do you give that

1290
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,640
video to TMC and then get a
restraining order?

1291
01:08:25,640 --> 01:08:29,319
Because clearly we know from the
series that Dakota felt quite

1292
01:08:29,319 --> 01:08:32,640
comfortable getting naked and
having sex with Taylor, so.

1293
01:08:32,720 --> 01:08:34,680
Many times since that incident,
so.

1294
01:08:34,680 --> 01:08:36,560
Where was the restraining order
there?

1295
01:08:37,319 --> 01:08:41,760
Well, I think the reason is, and
again, I I don't know, but there

1296
01:08:41,760 --> 01:08:45,160
was another incident in February
which we don't have the details

1297
01:08:45,160 --> 01:08:48,160
about yet.
So that that could be the reason

1298
01:08:48,200 --> 01:08:50,920
trying to, you know, go for the
most generous interpretation.

1299
01:08:51,000 --> 01:08:54,319
Yeah.
I also don't think we know 100%

1300
01:08:54,319 --> 01:08:56,479
that Dakota sold the video to
TMZ.

1301
01:08:56,479 --> 01:08:59,600
Now, of course, that is the most
likely scenario, right?

1302
01:08:59,600 --> 01:09:01,359
But we we don't know that for
sure.

1303
01:09:01,640 --> 01:09:04,880
Yes, 'cause I yeah, I'm trying
to think back to what Jesse

1304
01:09:04,880 --> 01:09:07,479
said.
She, she, she says she thinks

1305
01:09:07,479 --> 01:09:09,240
that it was Dakota.
She doesn't know who else it

1306
01:09:09,240 --> 01:09:11,240
could be, but she doesn't have
first hand knowledge of that.

1307
01:09:11,560 --> 01:09:14,279
So I, I think it probably was
Dakota that sold it to TMZ.

1308
01:09:14,279 --> 01:09:16,359
That makes the most sense.
But I'm just saying we don't

1309
01:09:16,359 --> 01:09:17,319
know that.
Absolutely.

1310
01:09:17,760 --> 01:09:20,359
His roommate said opposite.
He said that he didn't release

1311
01:09:20,359 --> 01:09:22,520
it.
Well, I, I don't take that, you

1312
01:09:22,520 --> 01:09:24,439
know, seriously either.
Of course, we just don't know.

1313
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,840
Why does he have roommates?
Sorry.

1314
01:09:29,200 --> 01:09:33,840
I mean, probably because housing
is expensive to save money, I

1315
01:09:33,840 --> 01:09:35,920
don't know.
Sorry I got really judgey with

1316
01:09:35,920 --> 01:09:39,720
that because I always feel like,
you know, the mom provides a

1317
01:09:39,720 --> 01:09:43,200
home and the dad's just like I'm
good get roommates or a one

1318
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:45,359
bedroom apartment.
I don't know, I'm projecting

1319
01:09:45,359 --> 01:09:47,439
against fine.
Maybe he's being financially

1320
01:09:47,439 --> 01:09:49,399
responsible.
I I don't know, maybe?

1321
01:09:49,520 --> 01:09:53,359
Dad talks not doing so well.
You know, I think can we just

1322
01:09:53,359 --> 01:09:56,520
all agree that we're we don't
need dad talk like dad talk can

1323
01:09:56,520 --> 01:09:59,560
please go away forever.
Like I don't like any of them

1324
01:09:59,560 --> 01:10:01,320
except Connor, sort of.
It's.

1325
01:10:01,320 --> 01:10:03,640
Kind of painful.
It's really painful.

1326
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:06,000
Like, I don't want to see Zach
on my screen ever again.

1327
01:10:06,000 --> 01:10:08,560
I don't need to see Dakota.
I really don't need to see

1328
01:10:08,560 --> 01:10:09,600
Jordan.
Never.

1329
01:10:09,600 --> 01:10:11,320
Grandpa Brett can go away
forever.

1330
01:10:11,640 --> 01:10:15,080
Like please stop.
Maybe he could go pursue his

1331
01:10:15,080 --> 01:10:18,680
singing career.
You know, it's ridiculous.

1332
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:26,720
Yeah, they I think just the the
nature of also, you know, the I

1333
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:30,200
think the concept of mom cute is
actually so cute, right.

1334
01:10:30,200 --> 01:10:33,440
Like I was a stay at home or my
mom for a while.

1335
01:10:33,440 --> 01:10:35,720
I would love to group of friends
and something like that like

1336
01:10:35,720 --> 01:10:38,680
that would have really, you
know, being a stay at home mom

1337
01:10:38,680 --> 01:10:41,080
is is a challenge, right?
It's isolating.

1338
01:10:41,080 --> 01:10:44,440
It's you want to have people for
your kids to play with, like you

1339
01:10:44,440 --> 01:10:47,840
want some company, you want to
be able to talk to other people

1340
01:10:47,840 --> 01:10:50,840
and be like, is this part
difficult for you or do you like

1341
01:10:50,840 --> 01:10:53,680
this part or I think something
like that would have been

1342
01:10:53,680 --> 01:10:56,000
incredible.
And you know, and it's sort of

1343
01:10:57,120 --> 01:11:01,000
fetus form.
You see mom talk is like just

1344
01:11:01,000 --> 01:11:03,640
this they're they were just
trying to do a thing.

1345
01:11:03,800 --> 01:11:05,920
I don't even know if they were
trying to start a company or get

1346
01:11:05,920 --> 01:11:07,880
rich.
They were just having fun as a

1347
01:11:07,880 --> 01:11:10,240
stay at home moms, you know?
And.

1348
01:11:10,240 --> 01:11:11,600
And here it is.
It's this thing.

1349
01:11:11,600 --> 01:11:14,160
And now they're like, yeah, but
what did my dad talk?

1350
01:11:15,080 --> 01:11:18,120
Like shut up, Jordan.
It's not connected to you guys

1351
01:11:18,120 --> 01:11:21,320
were all having your life and it
worked like Cam, do you have to

1352
01:11:21,320 --> 01:11:25,240
have everything like yeah.
Gross.

1353
01:11:26,160 --> 01:11:30,200
Yeah, lots of feelings on this.
Lots of feelings and one more

1354
01:11:30,200 --> 01:11:32,560
feeling I have about Taylor,
Frankie Paul, You know, I have

1355
01:11:32,560 --> 01:11:36,080
really felt really sympathetic
towards Taylor the whole time.

1356
01:11:36,080 --> 01:11:39,760
Now, watching that video, I was
not feeling very sympathetic

1357
01:11:39,760 --> 01:11:42,920
towards her, I would say.
But I think just sort of what we

1358
01:11:42,920 --> 01:11:47,120
have seen of Taylor's family,
her mom and her stepdad, God, I

1359
01:11:47,120 --> 01:11:48,440
do not like them.
No.

1360
01:11:48,440 --> 01:11:52,160
I think that Taylor has had some
emotional abuse growing up.

1361
01:11:52,320 --> 01:11:53,800
Yeah.
And, you know, that's me

1362
01:11:53,800 --> 01:11:55,920
speculating.
So if I'm wrong and if I'm off

1363
01:11:55,920 --> 01:11:58,280
base, then OK.
But the way that they will speak

1364
01:11:58,280 --> 01:12:01,080
to her I find really problematic
and disturbing.

1365
01:12:01,840 --> 01:12:05,800
And I think I read somewhere
that she witnessed abuse in her

1366
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:08,440
childhood.
And that does not excuse any of

1367
01:12:08,440 --> 01:12:09,880
her behavior.
But once again, it

1368
01:12:09,880 --> 01:12:12,840
contextualizes, right?
Like, hurt people hurt people.

1369
01:12:13,680 --> 01:12:17,160
And, you know, most people who
are abused as children do not

1370
01:12:17,320 --> 01:12:20,760
grow up to become abusers.
But there is a higher chance

1371
01:12:20,760 --> 01:12:24,720
than average that you know they
would perpetuate that cycle of

1372
01:12:24,720 --> 01:12:28,360
abuse.
Or at least seek it out as a

1373
01:12:28,360 --> 01:12:31,160
familiar component of a
relationship.

1374
01:12:31,320 --> 01:12:33,560
Absolutely.
Like I kind of think and you

1375
01:12:33,600 --> 01:12:39,600
know, did Taylor date her mom
like, you know, and or her dad

1376
01:12:39,600 --> 01:12:45,160
in the context of, you know,
just because there's always that

1377
01:12:45,160 --> 01:12:47,480
it feels like this tension.
I think you're exactly right

1378
01:12:47,480 --> 01:12:49,880
with like the mom there.
She's always just like like

1379
01:12:49,880 --> 01:12:51,720
pushing and shooting and
criticizing.

1380
01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:56,640
And that's like their dynamic,
but at the 4 of it is love me,

1381
01:12:56,680 --> 01:12:58,960
you know?
Yeah, her mom seems very jealous

1382
01:12:58,960 --> 01:13:01,080
of Taylor.
Yeah, she seems like she wants

1383
01:13:01,080 --> 01:13:03,320
to be Taylor, right?
We see it with the facial

1384
01:13:03,320 --> 01:13:06,160
procedures, trying to look more
like her, right?

1385
01:13:06,160 --> 01:13:09,240
So there's like, this kind of
pretty intense jealousy there.

1386
01:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,600
And then when we see when they
film the whole family, most of

1387
01:13:12,600 --> 01:13:15,200
the time it's her parents and
sometimes even her sister just

1388
01:13:15,200 --> 01:13:18,520
criticizing Taylor nonstop.
They have a lot to say.

1389
01:13:18,720 --> 01:13:20,600
They do.
And is it true that, you know,

1390
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:21,800
Taylor is messy?
Yes.

1391
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,240
Is it true that she's done some
things that aren't great?

1392
01:13:24,240 --> 01:13:28,000
I mean, obviously we saw it, but
like it doesn't feel like a

1393
01:13:28,000 --> 01:13:30,040
loving, supportive dynamic to
me.

1394
01:13:30,520 --> 01:13:36,000
It does not, because when we are
in a shame Sparrow, the last

1395
01:13:36,000 --> 01:13:39,000
thing we need is more shame.
And I think they just heap it.

1396
01:13:39,320 --> 01:13:42,640
They do and like just.
Kicking her when she's down

1397
01:13:42,640 --> 01:13:44,920
non-stop.
And so I've had a soft spot in

1398
01:13:44,920 --> 01:13:46,840
my heart for Taylor like this
whole time.

1399
01:13:47,400 --> 01:13:51,800
I mean, again, less now, but but
also, you know what I just hope

1400
01:13:51,800 --> 01:13:55,240
for her is she gets like therapy
and help and and and turns it

1401
01:13:55,240 --> 01:13:58,600
around, right?
Yeah, and and finds peace, like

1402
01:13:59,000 --> 01:14:02,480
honesty for all of them.
Just please like some peace

1403
01:14:02,760 --> 01:14:08,720
because there's there's just a
lot of of difficult things going

1404
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:12,120
on there.
And you know, I heard that she

1405
01:14:12,120 --> 01:14:14,760
lost custody of ever.
Yeah.

1406
01:14:15,040 --> 01:14:20,240
Which if that was in any way
leveraged by him to be a

1407
01:14:20,240 --> 01:14:23,120
punishment just to her, which I
know can sometimes happen in

1408
01:14:23,120 --> 01:14:27,400
divorce settlements, not on such
a big scale, but maybe in terms

1409
01:14:27,400 --> 01:14:31,800
of like time or money.
Or you know that that it's not

1410
01:14:31,840 --> 01:14:34,800
out of an intention to be with a
child, but to harm the mom

1411
01:14:34,800 --> 01:14:38,720
because understanding, you know,
the care they have the child or

1412
01:14:39,480 --> 01:14:41,440
any of those things.
True.

1413
01:14:41,880 --> 01:14:45,880
At the same time, that's not
really like Dakota's decision or

1414
01:14:45,880 --> 01:14:47,360
her first husband.
What's his name?

1415
01:14:47,360 --> 01:14:48,600
Tate maybe?
I can't.

1416
01:14:48,600 --> 01:14:52,360
Remember, but I mean, a judge
had to approve that and one can

1417
01:14:52,360 --> 01:14:55,160
see that that would be an easy
call having looked at that video

1418
01:14:55,160 --> 01:14:58,240
and and knowing that a child was
harmed in the course of that

1419
01:14:58,400 --> 01:15:00,800
altercation.
Yeah, I I mean, that's where

1420
01:15:00,800 --> 01:15:04,640
it's not him making the
judgement, though adding in

1421
01:15:04,640 --> 01:15:07,520
things like a restraining order
to help contribute to a picture,

1422
01:15:07,520 --> 01:15:11,680
I guess don't help either.
It's just, it's hard to know.

1423
01:15:12,040 --> 01:15:15,240
Like, you know, that saying like
the best interest of the child,

1424
01:15:15,560 --> 01:15:20,160
you know, it's is it.
And again, this is just me

1425
01:15:20,160 --> 01:15:23,120
having word vomit.
I haven't concluded, but like,

1426
01:15:23,120 --> 01:15:27,000
is it in the best interest to
take a child that you can even

1427
01:15:27,000 --> 01:15:30,960
see from a show is very clearly
bonded to their mother the way

1428
01:15:31,000 --> 01:15:33,560
or you know, I don't know, I
don't have any answers.

1429
01:15:33,560 --> 01:15:38,400
I just think it's so just
there's just so many layers.

1430
01:15:38,880 --> 01:15:41,240
Yeah, I mean, these are these
are tricky things for sure.

1431
01:15:41,240 --> 01:15:47,880
They are very tricky things.
So we could finish with a a talk

1432
01:15:47,880 --> 01:15:50,800
we both recently went to where
kindness was emphasized.

1433
01:15:51,280 --> 01:15:56,560
Yes, not in its right way, but
in like a you know, it's it's so

1434
01:15:56,560 --> 01:15:59,200
complex.
So maybe like Mormon mom

1435
01:15:59,200 --> 01:16:04,600
influencers layoff the shame on
Taylor right now with the you

1436
01:16:04,600 --> 01:16:06,840
know, have you seen the ones
that are like they're sitting

1437
01:16:06,840 --> 01:16:09,680
outside the temple and they're
like this and knowing I'm not

1438
01:16:09,680 --> 01:16:11,880
like Taylor fragrant, like they
are mean.

1439
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:13,840
Yeah, that's that's really
gross.

1440
01:16:13,840 --> 01:16:16,120
I don't like that at all.
No, of course on.

1441
01:16:16,120 --> 01:16:19,080
On the other hand, I also don't
like her supporters who leave

1442
01:16:19,080 --> 01:16:21,160
comments like I wish she'd
thrown another chair.

1443
01:16:21,200 --> 01:16:22,840
Yeah, like that's also
disgusting because.

1444
01:16:22,840 --> 01:16:24,640
It's not.
Healthy or good for, it's

1445
01:16:24,640 --> 01:16:28,960
disgusting. 100% like stop that
stop both of those things no

1446
01:16:28,960 --> 01:16:32,360
throwing things I I I was going
to make a joke about throwing

1447
01:16:32,360 --> 01:16:36,360
tears, but I think it's too soon
so I'll not yes, but just don't

1448
01:16:36,360 --> 01:16:41,080
throw chairs yeah just.
Yeah, and and once again, no one

1449
01:16:41,080 --> 01:16:43,960
deserves to be physically abused
ever.

1450
01:16:44,040 --> 01:16:45,640
No.
Or or kids.

1451
01:16:45,640 --> 01:16:49,480
To see that no.
Just let's all try to be nicer.

1452
01:16:50,640 --> 01:16:54,200
Oh yes, radical kindness.
Radical kindness from from

1453
01:16:54,200 --> 01:16:59,800
everyone they're yeah what I see
this season I really like enjoy

1454
01:16:59,800 --> 01:17:04,280
is the wrong word but was
interested to listen to call

1455
01:17:04,280 --> 01:17:06,440
her.
Daddy, good job.

1456
01:17:07,160 --> 01:17:10,160
Yay winning it life.
The coffee has kicked in though.

1457
01:17:12,000 --> 01:17:14,920
You know, it was a it was a
helpful episode, shall we say.

1458
01:17:15,840 --> 01:17:20,520
And I also just noticed like
there really is such a just tit

1459
01:17:20,520 --> 01:17:24,240
for tat, like I'm gonna up you
on an insult.

1460
01:17:24,240 --> 01:17:27,520
I don't know.
It's just, it's, it's just a lot

1461
01:17:28,320 --> 01:17:31,240
going on there for everyone.
It's a lot, yeah, I.

1462
01:17:31,280 --> 01:17:32,920
Hope they're all OK.
Yeah, me too.

1463
01:17:32,920 --> 01:17:36,160
I have a lot of compassion for
all of these women, even Taylor.

1464
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,600
I really hope she can turn
things around.

1465
01:17:38,680 --> 01:17:42,960
And I'm I'm trying to activate
my kindness for dad talk.

1466
01:17:42,960 --> 01:17:44,760
It's been a real uphill
struggle.

1467
01:17:44,760 --> 01:17:48,400
I mean, I'm, I'm trying to give
grace, but I think what I need

1468
01:17:48,400 --> 01:17:52,760
to see is like any effort and
improvement or being less shitty

1469
01:17:52,760 --> 01:17:54,520
from them.
And then I could, you know,

1470
01:17:54,520 --> 01:17:57,840
maybe find more compassion in my
heart.

1471
01:17:58,000 --> 01:18:02,240
Maybe you just have to get past
the nausea like right and then

1472
01:18:02,240 --> 01:18:03,920
the feelings, the.
Feelings, yeah.

1473
01:18:04,520 --> 01:18:07,120
Could kick in, Yes.
Well, the golden question for

1474
01:18:07,120 --> 01:18:08,920
you, Melissa Rella.
Yes, my dear.

1475
01:18:09,280 --> 01:18:10,720
Can mom talk?
Survive this.

1476
01:18:12,320 --> 01:18:15,120
I hope that they do.
I hope that Mom talk survives

1477
01:18:15,120 --> 01:18:17,080
and thrives.
And I hope that Dad Talk does

1478
01:18:17,080 --> 01:18:19,440
not survive this.
I mean, not literally in terms

1479
01:18:19,440 --> 01:18:21,920
of the individuals, but we don't
need Dad talk to be a thing.

1480
01:18:21,920 --> 01:18:23,400
I don't need to see these people
anymore.

1481
01:18:23,480 --> 01:18:25,320
Please go back to your regular
day jobs.

1482
01:18:25,320 --> 01:18:27,280
Yeah.
Just just go back there and

1483
01:18:27,280 --> 01:18:28,040
thrive.
At least.

1484
01:18:28,040 --> 01:18:29,040
Just go away.
Yes.

1485
01:18:29,520 --> 01:18:31,640
But this is not your gig.
This is theirs.

1486
01:18:31,840 --> 01:18:34,000
Exactly.
I don't mind a little dash of it

1487
01:18:34,000 --> 01:18:34,840
now and then.
Yeah.

1488
01:18:35,120 --> 01:18:36,760
Yeah.
But yeah.

1489
01:18:37,720 --> 01:18:40,120
Well.
We wish you luck, Mom Talk.

1490
01:18:40,280 --> 01:18:42,120
Yeah, good luck.
We're rooting for all of you.

1491
01:18:42,120 --> 01:18:45,400
Yes, all of you and all the kids
and just all the people

1492
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:48,720
involved.
So, and all you salty hoes and

1493
01:18:48,720 --> 01:18:50,920
salty Bros out out there, we're
rooting for you too.

1494
01:18:50,960 --> 01:18:53,800
Yes, I hope that you are
thriving, not just surviving.

1495
01:18:53,800 --> 01:18:55,440
Yes, I hope that you have a
lovely week.

1496
01:18:56,080 --> 01:19:00,880
And yes, I godspeed everyone.
We'll talk to you next week.

1497
01:19:01,280 --> 01:19:03,600
We're night from the salty hoes.
Take care.

1498
01:19:03,640 --> 01:19:04,600
Goodbye now.
Bye.