Dirty Sodas and Divine Downloads: An Evening with Jessi Draper

0:21 Hello. Hello. This is Claire. I'm Mel. And together we are. The salty hoe. I forgot to say it. Oh, you missed it for once. I. Missed it. I'm like just looking at you. The salty hose. The salty hose. Together we are the salty hose. All right, good morning. It's a Saturday morning. Good morning. We're recording this Saturday morning. You'll hear it on Tuesday, but it's it's bright and early. It's yeah, it's not really that early, but it feels quite early to me because some very lovely people threw me a party last night and my beautiful Claire hosted a birthday gathering. It was it was very fun and I so fun. I'm glad you're you're a wee bit hungover. Because you should be.

1:06 I'm a little hungover. Yes. Claire made this amazing cocktail that she called stripper juice and little hat tip to our Real Housewives of Rhode Island and I may have slightly overindulged and said Stripper Juice. Well, in your defense, it's one of those drinks that doesn't taste like a drink drink. Yeah, it's. Just like a fruity, light summer beverage. Like heaven, Yeah. So it's like, oh, I'm just going to quench my thirst here. And then you're like, oh, there's gin in that. Right. Yeah, it's hard to taste. And then it was topped off with some sparkling wine and it was really just absolutely lovely. I'm so glad that you liked. It Oh my goodness, y'all did the best job on the theming.

1:48 So the theme was bubble dogs and I don't know if I talked about bubble dogs on the podcast or just to you, but on the podcast I did OK. Sometimes I can't remember what I've said, like on the mic and what I've said just to my my lovely Claire, but it was this restaurant in London that I love that served champagne and hot dogs, so it was perfect. It feels very on brand for me, very classy meets trashy. Except I forgot like the main component of the night. So this was inspired by one of our conversations about the Real Housewives of Rhode Island. And they had the RE 4th of July party and the hot dogs and the the caviar hot dog, which you said signed it. Magnificent.

2:33 It does. And so we were going to do a caviar hot dog for you. So planning it with Mel's beautiful sister-in-law who I'm actually in love. Oh my God, isn't she the best? Oh my God, like she sidebar while I like pay homage to well, sister-in-law. She just is like, so she's like the full meal deal. She really is. Like she is stunningly gorgeous. I mean, she looks like a model, literally. So smart, so kind, soft hearted, like so like, like curious, I don't know, but like, you know what I mean?

3:15 Like just her conversation is I love she's just so. Interesting to talk to. Yeah. And she's so funny. Yes, hilarious. And so after last night, I'm just like, yeah, I'm in love with my sister-in-law. Yeah, totally fair. We all are. Sorry to your lovely brother who's also lovely like they give me hope. Right, I know second marriage for. Both of them, right? Yes. And I'm just like, OK, yeah, like. They're the best, I just adore them. It was so great that they were there and then my sister was there as well. Yes, your other Oh my God, and another full meal deal, you know. Isn't she's so great? Can I just talk about like the genetic spool of your family? I mean, I know your sister-in-law isn't like, you know, genetically, but obviously she was drawn into your lovely family like your family is.

4:03 They're just incredible. Like Oh my God, what goodness did your lovely sister bake? Oh, my goodness. She is a very talented Baker, so she's always making these, like, obscenely delicious desserts. But this was an homage to me again. So it was a BlackBerry bourbon smash cupcake tail. Yeah, it was good. Ridiculous. But they looked magnificent, like sometimes I can make things taste good. I will, I will absolutely can. But they they sometimes look like they fell on the road, like. You know what I mean? They do, but. She had it finessed like. Oh yeah, she does professional quality baked goods. Seriously, like they they looked like they were from a store. Yeah, they were that good.

4:50 Yeah, that's right. Like, incredible. And she also smells really good. Oh yeah, she does. I sound like, and you might not like know this because she probably wouldn't tell you, but she does these like really fancy professional grade cakes and donates them to children whose parents can't afford like a nice birthday cake. Oh my. God, yeah. See like full meal deals. Right. Yeah. All right, like just good humans, like gorgeous humans, talented humans. But it was so. It was so fun. It was so fun. And then you had like some of my bestest, bestest friends in the whole world there, which was really, really wonderful. I felt so loved.

5:34 We we got your recollection of people together and back to the hot dog. Sorry, before I went in all those tangents like purving over your family. So we were going to make the caviar hot dog. Oh yeah, and your beautiful sister-in-law, she's like, I bought the Pringles because you said the Pringles pair well. And she was like, where's the caviar? And I was like, I had one job. Excuse me? I think you had 1000 jobs. I walked into your place and, like, you were cooking. Wait, like what? Four types of hot dog? I was like Claire. This is classic Claire. Like, let me go over the top. Take it to 11 and just make everyone feel so loved and just in awe of your party hosting skills.

6:20 I. I do. I love to feed people. I I really do believe it's an Irish thing. Like harkening back to the Mormon days. We used to have these like monthly gatherings, I guess in the olden times they call them cottage meetings. Did you have that term grown up? No. Well, that, yeah. I don't know if it was an Irish thing or a but it was like, you know, you just got together with the people of the church, but we were like rotating around someone's home every month. And the Bishop, who I was married to at the time, Bishop's wife actually stopped them because people were going mental. Like it was like, but I was like, but you can't stop that. We enjoy that.

7:03 Like it's, it's, you know, a culture that likes to cook for people, so. I love this culture. I I love this culture too. So yeah, we just had to make sure you had all the meat you could possibly decide. Oh, I had plenty of meat. In in all the formats. So yeah, it was. It was so fun. So fun it was, I had the best time together. Yeah, so I'm glad you're a wee bit worse for wear this morning. In the best possible way I am, and I think it's still a little bit. I'm on the recovery train from the jet lag as well, much better now, much better. But I still have a little sleep deficit that I am paying back. So yes. You need to get some more sleep into your We Sleep Bank. That's right.

7:46 I feel like I'm on the right time now at least. Good. Yeah, but still catching up. Yeah, you need like a we vacation after your vacation. Right. Yeah, that's often the case. Definitely I I did sub a yoga class at 7:30 this morning and it it was a rough start, I'm not gonna lie. Oh my God, you're amazing. I'm in awe of you. I was not awake at 7:30 this morning. Oh, it was. Yeah. It's I actually when I sub this Class A we shout out to my we Saturday morning ladies. They're so cute. I, I just love them. They just fill my heart with goodness. They are. They are just lovely. Amazing. It was good and here we are now. Here we are doing our favorite thing. It really is.

8:29 And we we have a a fun kind of impromptu episode today. We do. So we decided to leave the house a couple of times actually this past week. Shocker. I mean, shocker. We're like and one of those nights was was very interesting. Mel, tell us about it. Oh wow, it was so funny when you pitched this to me because OK, it was in my calendar as Angel. Woo woo shit. This was an evening with Jesse Draper from The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives, which is how I think it came on your radar. Yes, but it was her and her channeler. Is that the word?

9:15 Yes? I don't know A. Channeling Angel. Reader. The only other term I'm familiar with is like an Angel card reader, but she didn't do cards. So channel. Yeah, a channel. I mean, essentially she was a quote psychic. Yes, yes. Some kind of pars. Yeah, and she was on the show for at least one episode, right? Like, we did have a brief cameo of her on the show, and it seems like Jessie has been relying on her in a similar way that one would rely on kind of a therapist, except she's having this person read her aura and look into the future of her timeline and talk to dead people. So it was a smorgasbord of all my very favorite things. You were elated, I could tell, yes. So you know I would be partial to a wee Angel reading myself with with the cards, mostly.

10:20 Shout out to Betty, who actually is, I think, a very good Angel card reader. Personally, can you tell me what Angel card reading is? I actually have no idea. So I actually don't know the difference between like an Angel card reader and a tarot. I think maybe the distinction lies in that there's more of a belief that like Anjali, people are sort of channelling, I guess are, you know, guiding the reading. OK, maybe as opposed, but I don't know who who is believed to be guiding the tarot question mark. So I'm surface level woo woo. Like I'm I'm not deeply embedded, but you know, it's you just pick cards. So like you might pick a deck deck to be clear with my accent deck DECK.

11:12 And you know, you might shuffle or they might shuffle and you tell them when to stop and then they just turn it over. And you'll usually have like a theme to the reading. OK. And sometimes she has a formula. So like the first card will tell you where you are now, or you know there'll be. Each card is like a specific answer to a specific question. I see. I can see. I can just see. I'm just trying to take it in. Can I share something embarrassing? So a couple of years ago when when you and I didn't know each other so well, I believe that I like got you an Angel card reading and I'm really embarrassed. Why are you?

11:55 Embarrassed. That was very sweet of you. Yeah, but you were probably like Jesus, No, like. I was actually kind of excited and curious to go, but like, it was right after I got divorced and I just like, I never actually got around to it. And then I remembered it a little bit later and I was like, I'm an asshole. Like I actually was quite excited to see what it was all about. And I just like, yeah, exactly. And I never did, but that was more because I was, you know, trying to move into a new house and like re establish a new life. And it just kind of fell through the. Minor things. Yeah. Going on at the time. Yeah, right. Dealing with an immense amount of, you know, grief and etcetera, etcetera. So yeah, it kind of fell off my radar. And then when I remembered it, I felt really bad because I was like, oh, that was so sweet of her.

12:37 And like, yeah, I, I really was actually kind of like curious just. To see yeah, I think, I think we should do that. Actually I think we we should do a like a A1 on one reading for you and maybe we can like record it and put it on the podcast or something. That would be fun. You're like, Oh yeah. Not convinced. I know. Yeah. What? What do you think? Like I mean, I wouldn't say put you off but makes you like skeptical of the woo woo. I think that I'm coming from a place of not believing in anything supernatural. OK.

13:19 So it's really the theoretical framework underpinning this stuff. So, for example, there are lack thereof. Yeah. I this this person that we saw on Thursday. Yeah. I do not believe that she is talking to dead people. I do not believe that she is in contact with Marciano's dead father. Who knocked a Candlestick? I Right. I do not believe that she can see into the future. Yeah. And so she in particular really irritated me because I think she's a charlatan. And I think she may or may not know that, you know, some people do believe in what they're peddling. It was hard for me to tell whether she did or not.

14:01 She was very, very smug and very, very self satisfied. And so her whole like, you know, persona put me off quite a bit. I disliked her very strongly. Now, that being said, there are some practitioners at this stuff who I think do truly believe in what they're doing and they truly believe that they're helping people. And in some cases they probably are really actually helping people because people want something to latch onto. Of course, yes. But I don't believe that anyone is talking to spirits, OK? I don't believe that that's a thing actually. And if it gives people comfort, I think that is fine. And one thing I think with things like astrology and tarot, I, I also don't think these have any power to tell you anything objectively about the universe that's outside of you.

14:47 I don't think the stars control your destiny. I don't think the tarot cards are showing you anything about your future. However, I think there can be value in these things because I think it can maybe tell you something about yourself that you didn't realize. OK, so I've seen people do tarot readings and whatever, and I'm like, OK, to me it's bullshit in the sense that this is telling you something external, right? But in talking through some of this stuff, it may allow you to kind of discover something internal that maybe you weren't able to put into words before. Does that make sense? That makes complete sense and is aligned with how? Prayer is actually sure, yeah. You know, like sort of the whatever you believe or who you're talking to or whatever it's been shown that like just psychologically, the processing of like talking through your problems allied or yes, is actually helpful.

15:37 I agree. So the self reflection piece. Yeah, absolutely agree with that. That can just be whatever the modality, right? Whether it's Angel card lady or you're on your knees at the end of your bed, send your re prayers. Or, or honestly going to therapy, right. Because a lot of what happens in like talk therapy, I mean, that's not necessarily scientifically validated either. Yeah. OK. But the difference there is they're not like claiming to have some psychic line to the universe. They're like, you know what I mean, whatever. But in a similar way, you're talking through things and maybe discovering things that you didn't know how to articulate before. So it's not that I dismiss like that it has any value. I think it it can have value.

16:17 Yeah. I I just, I don't believe in the supernatural. That's fair. There's actually a really great documentary. It's probably about 15 or more years old at this point. OK, I think everything happened like last. Week. I think we all do right. We're like, Oh yeah, the 90s were like five years ago. And then you're like, oh shit. Yeah, it's like, you remember what your kid was when you did it, and you're like, actually that would be like 15 years ago. But there's a great documentary called Kumari, and it's about this guy who his background is, I believe his grandparents emigrated to the US from India, Hindu background. He grew up sort of watching his grandmother perform different religious rituals and felt very comforted because, again, ritual is good for humans.

17:06 Whatever. So that looks like we like that. Yeah, we, we thrive on that. And he got to a stage a lot of us get to at some point sort of early adulthood, late teens, early 20s, and he just fell into like diet and with his feet and. But kind of was grieving it, which we know that part too, right? Like he wanted to feel, but he knew he just couldn't feel. So he actually went to college to study theology to see if that would help restore his faith. But it kind of made it worse. And so he was like, OK, I'm going to do this exploration of why people need gurus or as you said, something external from themselves to like believe in or guide them. So he went back to India, went in some travels acknowledgement of like the toxic Wellness industry of also appropriating, as I say, after I'm like I taught yoga this morning, but you know, but you have to acknowledge that element like you're taking this license of.

18:17 Year old practice and from a different culture. Yeah. And being like, come stretch with me, you know? And so that's a whole other thing, though, you know, like acknowledging that. And so he came back to the US and was like, I'm just going to start a cult. Wow. But with no like I'll intent. So like no money involved, no abuse, exploitation of people, all the usual facets. Of a goal, right? And he just made it like, he's like, I put on my grandmother's accent. I grew up my hair and beard. And he's like, I practiced yoga and meditation every day. And he noted that he felt like the effects almost immediately positively of that practice. But he became a guru and his teaching, this is a very long story to say the teaching is what you said.

19:06 He was teaching people that everything they had was within them. I like that. And they kept latching on to him and he was like no, no, no, no. It's not about me. It's. Everything you have is within you. It's a fascinating documentary though. That's really interesting. To like watch the process and he visits different other gurus and some of it is quite humorous, honestly. And, you know, he obviously confesses at the end, but I won't say anything in case you want to watch it. But it's, it's fascinating because, yeah, it's like we often seek these external validations, which there's no shame in that because sometimes we can't believe that we have it all within us.

19:51 The part that I don't like about it is these practices are sometimes like predatorily. That's not a word or expensive. Yes, and that's the part that feels gross to me. Yeah, I think they can be quite predatory. I don't think they all necessarily are, but not all of them. I mean, I love, I love yoga, for instance. I don't do it nearly enough, right. I think there's a ton of value in meditation. OK, that's actually been scientifically fairly well validated. Yeah, sure. The. Science is behind that. There, I mean, it doesn't necessarily mean that it's working in the way that a particular guru who says it's working, but you know what I mean? But you are doing something with your brain, right? And it does provide some real benefits. So I don't dismiss like all of it necessarily. Here's another like fun example, just, you know, in the universe of woo woo, OK, I love to sort of talk about this one. So acupuncture, right?

20:50 So this Chinese practice of putting needles into your body, and there's a quote UN quote theoretical framework that they talk about behind it, right? That you're somehow doing something with energy channels and Qi or like whatever. And you know, people swear by this, right? However, I do not believe there are energy channels or Qi running through your body. This doesn't make any sense from a physiological point of view, however, OK. There was an experiment kind of done by scientists in which they kind of tested the efficacy of acupuncture for for various like minor ailments, right? OK.

21:30 So I don't know exactly what they were studying, but relief from pain, I think, OK. And so they divided their test subjects into three groups, OK. One of them received sham acupuncture, which I don't really know how you do that, but maybe you just kind of touched the needle to the skin or something without inserting it, something like that. And then they had one group that was given acupuncture by trained Chinese practitioners of acupuncture. And then they did a third group, and this is the interesting group where they had randos just shoving needles in wherever. OK, So not in the places you're supposed to shove them in, right? They know nothing about the theoretical framework of Qi or energy or any of the shit, Right. And it turns out that the group that received acupuncture from the Chinese practitioners had a measurable effect better and outcome better than the sham.

22:27 OK, so the fake acupuncture. Yeah. However, the randos shoving needles into the skin also showed a benefit, and the benefit was equal to the trained Chinese practitioners. OK, So what you can conclude from this is that shoving needles into your skin is doing something OK. You're probably having some sort of cortisol stress response in your body. However, it also tells you the theoretical framework behind it is bullshit. Yes. OK, so it works. Yeah, to some extent. But it doesn't work for the reasons they're saying it works. You're not. Lining your cheek. Right, not doing anything with chakras or energy, or I don't think they talk about chakras, but it's a similar concept, right? It's like energy flow through the body. So what that tells you is that's all garbage. However, the practice of putting needles in your skin actually is doing something, OK, It's probably releasing endorphins, right?

23:15 And it is helping you with with pain. Now, that being said, acupuncture is not going to cure your cancer, right? So I think that's another part of the predatory thing that can latch on to some of these practices where they are overselling it, right? There could be like some benefit in doing a lot of these things. However, if it's convincing people to Askew medicine that might actually work like chemotherapy and pursue some of these things like, you know, Steve Jobs, for example, OK, he went down this woo woo nature like path and by the time he finally turned to to West Western quote UN quote medicine, so actual validated medicine, it was too late and he died. Yeah, yeah. And it's quite likely actually that if he had started that earlier, he would have survived.

23:59 And that's, I think that's where like, I mean, not to call, I don't mean specifically like acupuncture or yoga, like things rooted in tradition and research and culture and faith and all of those things. Like it's not unvalidated in that sense, but like in terms of, you know, medical outcome. And it, it made me think of there's a series called apple cider vinegar. Have you ever seen? That no, I haven't. I'm already intrigued. It's, it's really interesting. It's a true story of this Australian woman who claims emphasis on that.

24:42 And again, I don't want to do any spoiler alerts. Claims to have a cancer and cured it with apple cider vinegar. Oh. Boy. But creates like this whole cookbook and lifestyle and you know, talk and about how you can cure your body and heal yourself. And as you say, some of those things probably absolutely health, health, health, health the help help your health. And I believe I have heard like different studies about, you know, control groups with people will with potentially life threatening illnesses and the the role of like your if you have a positive white look or something to live for or not can have effect on healing and your body and you know.

25:29 It can, but it does have secure. But I think we have to be really, really careful with that stuff because toxic positivity, as you alluded to, is a real thing. And there is also this kind of dark side that comes along with that, which is victim blaming. Yes. OK. So if you, you know, died of your cancer and your positive thinking didn't cure it, well, that that's your fault. Yeah. You didn't think positively enough. And I think that positive thinking in terms of like those those really serious diseases, it's not validated. It doesn't actually matter how positive you think about your cancer. Yep. You know, cancer is cancer, right. OK. Now, could it help with something like a severe mental health issue? Yeah, probably right. I mean, that stuff is really complicated. Well, it's like even if you're having a baby or any kind of peeing, right?

26:17 Like you could break a limb or fall or just any kind of peeing, like if you are freaking out, it's worse, right? So if you can like calm the the pain doesn't go away, but your ability to maybe manage it is elevated or better. And so I think along those lines, things can be helpful. But the the line about being sold, it's a substitute for can literally cost people their lives sometimes and many documented cases of that. And like famous people personally, you know, we maybe know people as well. So, yeah, I think that that side of the woo woo is toxic because, you know, while these practices can help for whatever reason, like you said with the acupuncture, you know, there's, there's also people that have studied and gone to school for a very long time to, to, to treat you, which is great that we have cures and options and things don't need to be a death sentence anymore. Yeah, some things still are.

27:24 Some things aren't. You know, I keep mentioning cancer, and that's a tricky one. Yeah, there's a lot of chemotherapies that work fairly well, but they don't work for all cancers. And sometimes no matter what you do, Yeah, You know, quote Western or quote natural, yes. You're gonna die. Yes. Or you're gonna get better. Yeah. I mean it's. Just not your time. Or it is. Right and it might not have anything to do with that, but you know there's a reason like we do these large clinical studies, yeah, right. And 10s of thousands of people, right, because we're trying to actually, you know, uncover some objective reality and not this subjective internal reality, which to be clear, is important, right? And it depends on what kind of disorder we're talking about. But when we have this overstep into, you know, again, things like cancer, progressive neurological diseases that are going to progress regardless, it is predatory to sell these sort of things as a cure.

28:20 And it's also victim blaming because when it doesn't work, it's like, well, you didn't believe enough or you didn't try hard enough, right? You didn't do all this. You didn't do enough yoga. I like, I don't know, you know, And to me that's a very dark side and it makes me very angry. Yeah, that's fair because it place on people's desperation, Yes, and that's not. OK. For financial gain. Yes, and that's, you know, a lot of them usually are quite costly yes. And I think that that's a a giveaway. Yeah, it really is Here's the thing. We all we all need to make money right. Sure to live we do live in late stage capitalism, yes. It's the name of the game. We, we like food and shelter and so and you know, anybody that's undertaken any kind of training deserves. To be paid.

29:08 I agree. And yes. And do you know, do some things deserve $200.00 an hour something Sure. Something's no right, You know? That's yeah, just maybe not. Yeah. And, you know, I think it is meeting a need because I'm not going to defend our healthcare system in America as being perfect, right? There are a lot of flaws, a lot of problems. Yeah. And people, I mean, it's too expensive for one thing. It's not accessible. It's not accessible, right? Insurance companies and big like healthcare organizations make a lot of money on people's pain as well. So that's real. Yeah. People often when they go to a physician feel dismissed or rushed or whatever, and that's real as well because of the financial incentive that these big hospitals or medical groups have. Oftentimes, you know, the physician would love to spend an hour with you, but they can't.

30:02 They have 4 appointments that hour and they're mandated by their hospital or whatever to move you in and out. So someone that will listen to you for an hour and like prescribe you some herbs feels better, right? It might not be better, but it feels better to you because you're not a number, right? You're not a 15 minute appointment. You didn't wait for an hour to see a Doctor Who then rushed through and, like, didn't really listen to you. Yeah. So it makes sense that people turn to these other things. So maybe a combo is good. Well, I mean, yes and no. Again, like herbs and like natural remedies, you have to be really careful with those too. A lot of those not only are not good for you, but they're bad for you.

30:43 Yeah, or could have counter indications to like medicine that you might be taking or? Yeah, we live in Utah, which is kind of the home of multi level marketing and supplements. Thank you to the late Orrin Hatch for making sure the supplement industry is largely completely unregulated. Wow. Yeah. And so if you're taking something from a health food store in a bottle in pill form, that thing has not been validated. It might not even be what it says it is. OK. It hasn't been rated for efficacy or safety. And so you're kind of playing roulette with your health, taking some of this shit. Like at best it's harmless, at worst it's not good for you. Yeah, and it's yeah, it it's I, I'm losing my words. I'm not a fan of supplements.

31:32 Do you take them? Like how do you feel about? Them I don't take any. Yeah, I don't take any either. I've. I also take don't take vitamins by the way. That has been pretty thoroughly debunked that healthy adults need a multivitamin. You don't save your money. Well, because it's really best and I know this can be overly idealistic because there's things by access and affordability and all those things, but it's, it's the best case scenario to seek those from nutrition, right? Yeah, yeah. And and those things are there and probably a lot cheaper than supplements, honestly. Right. And with multivitamins, again, you're not necessarily getting what you think you are. Yeah.

32:13 OK. So even like the big brands, people have done these studies where they take them off the shelf and then like, analyze them chemically. They don't have what they say in them. They don't have the amounts they say in them. Yeah. Also, a lot of these vitamin pills are mega doses, which you you don't really actually want to be taking. Like excess vitamin A is dangerous. OK. So what does it do? Well, there is. It's correlated. I don't want to say like causation necessarily, but it's correlated with increased rates of certain cancers. Wow. Yeah. My goodness, some people are like, I'm taking a vitamin. It's good. Right. It's healthy for me. OK, Now there's two possible exceptions. 1 is the vitamin D story, but that one's complicated, right? You hear these things like, oh, 90% of us are depleted in vitamin D It's actually a little unclear from the literature how much vitamin D we should really be getting and how many people are actually deficient. It's probably not that many, but again, the literature is pretty like gnarly on that.

33:07 I've tried to look into it before and it's a little bit of a weird like story to untangle. So I would say maybe, maybe not on vitamin DI, personally, don't take it. And then the one thing though, that is really well validated is folic acid for women who are gestating. Oh yes, you need to be taking that test. Against spina bifida. Right. That's right. Yeah. So, neural tube closure deficits. So that's a good one. Take your folic acid if you're pregnant and three months before if you're trying. That's right. Exactly. We'll give you those, those those guidelines there. Vitamin DI was thinking about that because that must be an interesting one because not that I obviously know a lot about this, but I know you do like speaking like evolutionary evolutionarily speaking. I just made that word so overly complicated. But if you think about regions where people live and the different doses they have become accustomed maybe intergenerationally to getting a vitamin DI would assume maybe bodies would adapt to a point in terms of like sunlight exposure, right?

34:17 Because that's, I mean, obviously we can get it different ways, but that's the main source, right? Yeah. And so like you would expect at some point, taking a measurement for somebody who lives very far north would be very different than somebody who is living near the equator or even like here in Utah where we get so many blue sky days per year and sunshine. And that you would adapt eventually. Maybe, I mean, you do adopt to death eventually. That's true. I think that with the vitamin D, it's a little tricky because we're not living in our sort of evolutionary, like ancestral conditions. Yeah. So I don't know, that one's just a little bit unclear to me.

34:58 And of course, there's this story that like maybe we have different skin tones, right, because of this vitamin D exposure thing, right? The lighter skin and northern latitudes would have been adaptive, right, Because you have less melanin, so you get more kind of light in there. That if that's not totally clear to me either, that could be true. It could also just be a just so story, which is very common like in in evolution, not really sure, but that it's possible. That's a valid hypothesis at least, yeah. I'm, I'm like purple skin tone flipping to almost the far North Point of Ireland, which is very far north. And Yep, we don't get a lot. Of yeah, I've got that, that Viking ancestry as well, right?

35:41 Like long winters up in Sweden. Mm, hmm. It's like son, Oh my God, I'm gonna burn. Yeah, that's it's a thing. Well, we got to vitamin D from the Angel night. Oh my God. Coming coming back to our We Angel night, Yes, there was a nice surprise. There there was. Tell us. Marciano was the surprise. Actually, there was quite a few surprises To pivot again as we just went to one topic, this setting. Can we discuss the setting for a moment? So we arrived and we checked in, but then there was a line. And you know how sometimes, like there's just herd behavior in humans, we join the line, but we don't know why.

36:23 We're kind of. Exactly. We're like, we're not sure what the line is, but clearly everyone's in line so. And so we should be in the line. And the woman who checked us in had mentioned something, but we, we didn't kind of quite catch it. So I went back over and was like, what? What's in this line? And she said, oh, it's just some like desserts and a drink. And I said, oh, drink like, like alcohol. And it was like, like. She was like, sure, shock and horror. She's like, no, it's a dirty soda. And I was like, Oh my God, have I been transported to Utah kind tea, which for our listeners outside Utah is a a densely populated Mormon region of the state.

37:04 Yes. And I was like, oh, OK, that thank you. So we swiftly removed ourselves from the line and we went and got some popcorn and find our seats and we we kept thinking we saw well known people. Yes. And we clearly also missed the memo that said, like, dress angelically in white. Everyone was in these white flowy like sun dressed style things, and Claire and I were both wearing black, black tops. The angels of doom. Yeah, we were the fallen angels of the night, I guess. We definitely.

37:45 Were and we were like and she mentioned it like about they said, oh, we're right and we're like. Oh that's right. I feel like I had read that a while ago, but in my like jet lagged fugue state I had no idea which way was up or down or what we were doing so. I was. I was very proud of you for coming for both the reason of I know it's not remotely appealing and you were also exhausted so. I mean, it was appealing for a couple of reasons. Number one, just watching the train wreck, right? And like, it's something I'm not familiar with. So it's like, OK, this is experience. It's different. It's a novelty, right? Human brains love novelty, right? So I actually was excited for the novelty. And you know what? I was kind of excited to see Jessie too, right?

38:26 Because of course, we've seen her on The Secret Lives of Mormon Wives. It was funny to see Marciano, too. If you don't watch the show, Marciano is the person from Vanderpump Villa that she kissed a couple of times. And then that was one of the precipitating factors that blew up her marriage. OK. Now, we found out from Call Me Daddy that prior to this, Jordan had been hiring escorts or trying to anyway. So she wasn't the first person to, you know, behave inappropriately in that marriage. And she wasn't paying for it. Yeah. On his card. Yeah, yeah, that's that's a very fairpoint and it helps me to loathe that man even more. Exactly.

39:09 Gross. I know, right? Just when you thought you couldn't hate him more. Yeah. Yeah, he's disgusting. But I I like Jessie. I think she's so cute. I think she's charming and lovely. I mean, I don't love that she believes in this psychic because I didn't like the psychic, but like, I, I think she's great. She is lovely and was so personable. Super cute, great conversation. It was like a nice moment where the Woo Woo lady went off stage and Marciano went off stage and she just kind of chatted to the crowd and was like, does anybody have questions? And she was very open and you asked her how she was going to celebrate like her divorce, and she enjoyed that question. I can't remember her.

39:51 Oh, she said. I don't know yet. Like, what should I do? And then audience members were calling out various ideas, and it was really cute. Like, she seemed very genuine. Like very. Kind and like, just like a good, fun, personable person. Yeah, like really down to earth. Yeah. Not at all. Sort of head in the clouds with like, yeah. Surprising fame, right, You know? Yes. And astute business woman like she, she was lovely. Yeah, I really liked her more after the evening. Me too, definitely. And then Marciano came out. We got excited because we'd seen on her Instagram Story we're like, Oh my God, we think Marciano's.

40:33 There. And he came out and I think my first question to you was, would you ever date a man who wore glitter shoes? I mean, God, that his outfit, you're like, wow, could you have dressed any douchier? I mean, the glitter sneakers, like the open shirt with the gold chain, right? The extremely aggressive spray tan or whatever. And I will say I have not watched all of Vanderpump Villa. I've kind of tried and I I just, I couldn't get totally into it. It's slow. It's kind of slow. Yeah, I've tried to. And I was like, I am watching the paint dry on the wall over here and yeah. Yeah, I kind of felt that way about Vanderpump Rules, too. I watched the first season and I, I was trying so hard to like, get into it because I know everybody loves it. And there's this arc, right, that builds. And I think the later seasons are what people really like the most.

41:26 I might try to come back to it, but I just, I couldn't quite get into it. So I don't know the whole Marciano lore or back story or whatever. I do know that he has this ex-girlfriend, Hannah, that's on the show and like, there's, you know, some threads about that, but I don't, I don't really know much about it. Yeah, I don't either. And I love what's Lisa? Is it Lisa Vanderpump? Is that her name? Like I love her. Queen. Queen. Absolutely, Goddess. And actually my oldest daughter and I went to her restaurant in West Hollywood one time. Oh. Fun. The one that's on the show. Yes, I think it's she has a. Few, yes, but yeah, there's the one that was like on the show. It's so beautiful.

42:09 It had like, so I think that one recently closed, but it had like this lovely central courtyard and like you're in West Hollywood and it's you feel like you're just away from everything. It had trees like grown up nearly the middle of the tables, like aesthetically like it's beautiful and all of the wait staff look like Marciano. Oh my God, that's hilarious. Yes, yeah. I mean, she does hire only, like, very beautiful people, I think, that are trying to, like, break into acting or modeling or like, whatever. So I mean the aesthetic is on point. Definitely, and L as the place to do that, right. For sure I walked by her satellite place in Vegas last time I was there and that was a whole shit show of a trip for a different reason.

42:54 But I walked by her beautiful little restaurant and I kind of wanted to go in and get a drink, but there was a line and I'm like, I don't want it that bad. Not bad enough to wait for it. So yeah, exactly. I have to say, the food and drinks at that restaurant were really, really good. That makes me happy. Like really good. And it wasn't. It wasn't overly expensive. Either Oh wow, which amazing shout out Lisa Vanderpump. 100% because you, I mean, West Hollywood, there's a great coffee shop there. I can't remember the name, but I really like it. And you go for like 2 coffees and a PST there. It's like $70.00, right? It has a beautiful courtyard also. But like, you know, you're like oh wow, $70.00. But I remember my daughter and I like, we were like, wow, that's it. Like it was, it was not at all expensive. And so shout out to to well known people who don't like RIP the R side of it.

43:48 Yeah, and who could charge? Charge The Who? Charge a fortune and do not charge a fortune. So. Yeah, that's classy. Thanks, Lisa Vanderpump. I mean, she doesn't need the money, but like. Yeah, but super cool. Very cool. And. Yeah, so he he came out. Here's the thing. I would say like I, I personally like, I'm sure Marciano's devastated. He, it's not, he's not my type. I don't think he'd be your type. Either. I know Marciano like you may never recover. Pry yourself to sleep tonight, but. But like, I can appreciate that he is quite a gorgeous human. Yeah, he's a good looking person, yes.

44:28 Yeah, he's not my type either, but yeah, he's good looking, but objectively like. He just, and he's like a wee bit of charisma and he doesn't actually seem super douchey. He seems like kind of a tender. Hearted I agree soul yeah, I mean he he looked kind of douchey, but he didn't like present his kind of douchey again. I don't know a lot about him. I don't know what he's like on the show, but like I was like, all right, like he seems fine. Yeah, I don't love him for like Jesse is a life partner, but as like a fun like post divorce little relationship. Great. Get it, Jesse. Like 100% because I did watch he did a get ready with me real that I stumbled upon on accidents.

45:09 Bring a tan on or something. Like it? You know, I have a little sidebar on the Get Ready with me videos. One thing I notice is, you know, the girlies they put on their cute hair band and it's all about like lotions and potions and and then I notice when men do it. Like there was this one man, I don't know his name. It was kind of his, his brand where he would walk in, swagger up to the mirror shirtless and splash water on his skies, run his hand through his hair, which I don't know why gives me the ick. It just it looks dirty and greasy. Anyway, he you're like girl, like you had a man with shitty pants for years. You cannot say anything.

45:51 I wasn't even thinking that, but. But that's where my head goes, really, because it's it's funny what we will tolerate what gives us the ick. But then this man, and the reason I mention it is did it in this video too, like brush his teeth. They brush their teeth and then like I know what they're doing. They like spit it out but it like like run sign their feet. And you're just like, I don't like that if. A woman did that. Like, could you imagine that? The outcry, It's sloppy. Yeah. They'd be like, she's disgusting. And they're just standing there, like dribbling, dying their face, like, stay wiping it with the back. And you're just like, oh, what? What a dual standard.

46:32 We have, yeah. That is true. And and they're like putting their deodorant on again. Like, I feel like if more women were showing the actual practical side of getting ready, people would be like, oh, but like, there's a man with his like, Old Spice stick. And it's true. You have a body that does body things. You're you sweat. That's disgusting. Like, yeah. So. So yeah. Like he, he is an attractive man, clearly. Yeah, I agree. One of the questions to Jesse was, are you dating? Yes. What was her response? Marciano We're dating casually but also dating other people. And then the part. That made me laugh. And she said.

47:13 And I'm also taking time alone. Yeah, like, no, you're not. It's like, but wait. If you're dating multiple. People, there is no time alone, right? It's it's kind of like one or the other. Yeah. And they did not look like they were casually dating. No. They looked like they were an item, like in a relationship in in a like a body language. Kind of way, yeah, like at 1. Point at the end when the Angel reader was doing her stupid readings and they were standing off to the side and he was just like, wrapped all around her and like she was leaning back into him like head on his shoulder, like they looked like a couple. Yeah, we both noticed that 'cause. We were slowly. Backing.

47:54 Towards the back of the theater that we moved our. Seats from the front to the back. We moved our seats in case. We wanted to leave. Yeah. I already knew I wanted to leave. Yeah, when Jesse was done because this woman was really rubbing me the wrong way. Yeah, we're despite my efforts to. Make you volunteer to go on stage for reading. I think I was. It's not that I would be embarrassed to do so. And, you know, you had this whole story that you wanted me to tell, which was kind of hilarious. And I think had I had a little more sleep, I would have been able to, like, go along with that a little bit more. But I was like, very tired and kind of done with her at that point. You're like, I can't. Yeah, I. I can't go up there and yeah, pretend.

48:34 Also worth mentioning that every time they said can we have a volunteer, the entire theater put their hand up. Yes, everyone wanted this. Angel reading from her. So you weren't you weren't getting picked. We were at the back, yeah. We were at the back, yeah. But yeah, we looked over and it was. Actually a really cute, sort of like tender thing because she, yeah, just had her head like in, in the crook of his neck, kind of nestled up. Yeah. And his like chin was. Resting on her head and it was just you're like, OK, yeah, they're. They're not casually. Yeah. They like, that's a cute moment. Totally. And I'm just in the corner. Like, it wasn't performative. They didn't think anybody was looking. We were just being stalkers. That was the well they were in public. So yeah, that's true.

49:19 So we're looking over at them. But it was, yeah, it was, it was very cute. I think we talked about this on the way out. We did leave prematurely, yes. And I grabbed. A warm and dessert. On the way out, you did. It was good. It looks good. Yeah, I I bit into this cookie. And and there was gooey stuff in the center. Yeah, I didn't expect that. It was a nice sweet surprise. But we we talked about like sort of that post divorce whiplash period. Yeah. I mean, you alluded to that earlier and, you know, it's maybe a difficult thing to understand if you haven't been divorced, but like, tell us more about that period.

50:04 Yeah, it's it's weird. It's hard to. Describe I feel like you're kind of in this weird haze and your emotions are swinging every which way. Yeah, yeah. There's some real high highs. There's some real low lows. You know, there's this kind of feeling of like freedom and I don't need to like spend, you know, all my energy trying to make someone happy who is never going to be happy, right? So you have this like kind of release, but then at the same time you have this loneliness, right? And you miss them and you kind of miss what you have given up. You're second guessing yourself non-stop every other minute. It's really tough. It's hard to kind of know who you are anymore and what to do with yourself, how to feel. Yeah, it's really disorienting.

50:52 I think that word just. Captured everything like the disorienting aspect because it is such. A mix. Of emotions because, yeah, on the one hand, particularly if you've had a, a person that you've had a lot of like walking on egg shells with or, you know, some aspect like that, there's, there is relief, yeah, you feel it. Like in your bones. But at the same. Time you. Know whether you're like quote, UN quote trad wife or not, you were still a wife like a spice and it is a whole other social role, which I think is. Something that's overlooked. Sometimes, like, you know, you can go to gatherings and be, I went to one the other week and I was like, oh, look, I'm the only uncoupled person here. And like, maybe a few years ago that probably would have made me really upset.

51:44 At this point, I'm like, cool, you know it, It didn't bother me to the same extent. But there's a new social role. There's getting used to coming into an empty house. They're just getting used to if you have children, they're them not being there all the time. I mean, there's so many things and it, it really does feel like whiplashing away. It does because you're like, you don't know what to expect. There's grief, panic. I felt a lot of panic. It would just like hit me and you're, it was sort of nondescript panic. Like, you know, it maybe wasn't about finances or loneliness or it was just kind of like destabilizing panic. Yes, we're all the anchors.

52:25 And, you know, it's understandable in that period that you could reach for the woo woo. Yeah, absolutely. And particularly with Jesse, like she's been one of the secret lives that's the most vocal about stepping away from the Mormon church. Yeah. So it's kind of all that that's right rolled into it. For her too, I. Mean, that's almost like a divorce, too. Yeah, like an A grief a. Separation, A morning of what you thought your life would be. She did mention something I thought was interesting too, that so Jordan was her second marriage and that she had gotten married three months after getting divorced. Yeah.

53:07 Which exploded my brain. Yeah, you're like, oh, honey. Yeah, I'm not doing, not in a judgement way. And. It right, but I also thought this is an assumption. She has never spoken to this. You and I know the Mormon culture and faith and as we saw poor Brittany Bateman as a grown ass woman having a breakdown for feeling guilty about having sex outside of marriage, a lot of Mormons will get married very swiftly because they don't have sex outside marriage. And so the three month thing is on the one hand, understandable in terms of understanding the community, true. And on the other hand, what?

53:51 Yeah, what are you doing? But again, I'm I'm not judging either because there's not only the Mormon thing in the religious trauma that I'm sure she went to through, but I feel like she did speak about this a little bit on her interview with Call Me Daddy. This, this need, like desperate need to be loved and to be important to someone. And, and I totally can relate to that, especially coming out of a marriage where you didn't feel loved or valued or appreciated or seen or, you know, even in my case, like you were real at the end. Like I, I feel like a ghost walking around like as if I just didn't matter in any way. And then someone pays attention to you and, you know, like Jordan clearly did. And I think it would be really easy to latch on to that. Now, I did not get remarried or latch on to anyone within three months.

54:42 But like, you know, I can totally understand that. Yeah. Yeah, that well. You and I have both shared little anecdotes of how somebody like a man performed the bare minimum. And we were both like, literally crying, yes, and being like Oh my God, Oh my God, like. Someone put a shelf up or a table? Together, more like, Oh yes, what is this beauty? Yes, exactly. So yeah, when you come out. Feeling like that, that ghost, that shadow. Yeah. And the confusion, like, wait a minute, like these other parts of my life, I, I feel confident, successful.

55:25 And yet this relationship part, I feel like shredded, yes, like completely destroyed. Yes, yeah. And so I have. To say personally I had a strong desire to be dating a coupled yes post divorce. Quite quickly. And it's probably a judgement I would have made before divorce, like it's too soon. And it's a very real need as well. And. It can lead to poor decision. Making poor decision making AKA. Jordan yes. And you know at. This point, I I don't have that same urge. In fact, I almost have the opposite. Yeah, right.

56:09 Like, leave me alone, Yeah. I I was sitting before we. Did this this morning doing one of my absolute all time favorite things, which is just having a lovely coffee and a coffee shop. I just love to do that. And I was just like, yeah, alone because I wasn't awake yet. I was still struggling out of bed, but like, I love doing that. With you, I love doing that by myself and I I even sometimes look at couples and I'm like, EW, you know, Oh my God, you have to plan. Your Saturday. Around them like I can do whatever I want, right? You know, so it. For anybody in that face right now, I it will level out. You will maybe even swing to the opposite space. But acknowledging that need is very real. Like like post divorce and you know, leaning, leaning into whatever gets you through because I have to say that I definitely utilized Betty's services at Dancing Koreans. So for no Salt Lake locals.

57:10 Dancing Cranes is like the epitome of the woo woo store. Yeah, I mean, you can get your crystals. That's right. Wind chimes, like meditation pillows. I mean, you name it. Yes. Woo woo centric merch. Yeah, for the masses. And they also do. Yoga and like readings. And I I was a frequent visitor. That's fine if they did. Miles I I would be like the top tier. Your punch card would be full. Oh yes, and you know, at the time. I think a lot of it, especially post Mormon, is leaning in to something outside of yourself as you nurture the self trust.

57:57 Yeah, that totally makes sense. And and. 0 judgement for that and no judgement to Jesse for sort of latching onto this psychic person. Yeah, all my judgement to the actual psychic person, but none, none to Jesse for like just wanting to hold on to something. By the way, I kind of had the sense, and I don't know, it was just a body language thing that Marciano was not all in on the psychic. Yeah. He, he was being very polite, yes, But I did not get the sense that he was a full believer. Yeah, he he didn't have like. You know that like Angel lady gasp. Well, we call it. Oh my God, how did you know? I thought she said something will happen in September or maybe December or?

58:43 March or potentially October, November. She named more than half the year as a potential time where something might happen. Yeah, one of my favorite parts of the. Evening was looking at you in that moment on your face and you said she just listed like half the year. Like, of course something is going to happen in eight months of eight years. Yeah, something will happen that is right. Like we could take a a wild guess and then. You know, we started coming up with our own scenarios like Melissa between January and September, something will happen and she kept doing this. Annoying. Thing too where she's like oh oh oh something yeah I can't tell you what it is though I know what it is but I can't tell you you're like uh huh sure you can't because you're making it the fuck up yeah that part was like.

59:37 We're Yeah, she's having some conversation about you, but you're not. You can't be Privy to it. Yeah, it was very, very. Obnoxious. And you're like, this is very transparent as well, right? Like, oh, I know what it is, but I can't tell you. Yeah, you just have to find out. It's like, well, then what the fuck are we doing here? Yeah, Why are you bringing it up? Yeah, exactly. Why are you even? Bringing it up if you're. Not going to. Yeah, yes. And also, I was quite irritated on Marciano's behalf about how she kept saying she was talking to his dead father. You're like stop it. You know, you and I both. Got the ick when she talked about Macy. Macy. I was actually quite. Angry on Macy's behalf? Yes, because she said.

1:00:17 That. She was talking to Macy's ex who died quite tragically yes, and also Macy's not a believer in this stuff. And that seemed to me at best in extremely poor taste like that was actually terrible. Well, because she. Overly emphasized. It was on. His death day. Was it the death day? She called it the day that he died and. That. Also felt a little flippant to me because we all have a different approach to death. We all have a different approach to grieving. And for some people, even that terminology can be really jarring. Yeah, You know, because, again, everybody handles it differently. She's clearly very comfortable in that realm, right? Like ghosties, spirits, death, you know, right. But not everybody is.

1:01:08 And it can really be anxiety inducing, I think. Yeah. And I think we saw on the show on an. Earlier season how affected Macy still was by this person's death like how much it was still unresolved for her and so for this woman to be like Oh yeah, I'm talking to your like dead ex on you know the father of your child on his death day to do to do yeah, I was I was quite angry yeah and that's I mean because. That is the scale of something that never goes away. You may learn to live with it, right? Like she's married again, has a child with Jacob, but she's a child with this person. It was also so traumatizingly tragic and she was so young, which always heightens it, right?

1:01:53 When it's like a younger person, it's like, it's like making me teary even to recount all the elements that were like difficult for her. And I don't think it's anyone else's place to be flippant with that. If it's asked for great. Sure. If you're like, Oh my God, it is their anniversary, please give me something comforting. And there's also like this. You could actually say something that could be really bad. Yeah. Traumatizing even. That would be like Oh my. God, yeah, I said that thing and. That answer aligns and he's still mad. Or you, you know what I mean. You could make up all kinds in your grief, like stories about that. Yes, for sure.

1:02:36 And it sounds like not. Only did she, you know, say all this to Macy, but that she was quite pushy about it. Yeah. Yeah. Disgusting. And and the lights I guess. Went off or. Something. Yeah, it was something like that. It was just like. That's him and you're like or. Vomit could have been a. Power surge, which happens all the time. Yes. Like your lights can flicker. Oh my God. My last house the power used to go out all the. Time temporarily, like it was just a thing. Yeah. And it. It wasn't ghosts. I'm pretty sure it was the fact that, like when they wired our neighborhood, they didn't quite do it properly. That that's fair. You know, once they took down all the utility poles and rewired everything, we didn't have that problem anymore. So I don't think the ghosts were responsible, were at peace, Melissa. They didn't like the poles that obscured the view. God, yeah, I lived.

1:03:24 In a house once where? If you plug something and then the kitchen, the lights upstairs would flicker and I just think there was some dodgy. Wiring somewhere? Exactly. I don't think it was. It was a ghost, yeah. I had that. As well my first house that. We owned in Salt Lake had three different wiring systems of different vintages like spliced together and this just horrible. I had an electrician over once and he kept like flipping switches and then going to other rooms and being like huh, you're like, that's not what I wanted to hear. Not a good sign when it. Treats person is like OK. Yeah, that's not a good sign, no. And and also no shade to anybody that finds comfort in that, right?

1:04:06 Like there can be some some comforting experiences that happen for people sure, but all the shade on this person who. Is telling someone that doesn't believe in it that she's talking to this, her dead ex who died tragically? Yeah, horrible. I think the point of those experiences. Are they are personal? Yes. And you observe them yourself through your lens of what could be meaningful with your relationship with the person that's passed on. That's right. You know, And yeah, that that part really upset me too. I was just like, it was, it was the flippancy with the delivery, I think. Yeah, she was quite flippant about a lot of things. A lot of people's dead relatives. It was quite odd. Yeah, there there was one in particular about. BB again, like tread fucking softly there. Like, again, not everybody has that. Level of comfort.

1:04:57 Particularly if it's personal. Yeah, that was bad, Yeah. It's I don't like that. She also wasn't a very. Good reader like when she did. The, the readings for the audience, I don't know if you've seen like on TV or whatever, but there are people who are cold readers that are very good at it, right? Because they are very attuned to people's facial expressions and body language and like little giveaways. And they're actually really, really good at like sort of because they kind of talk through it. And then when they hit right, they go further down, down that road, right? And so there are people very, very talented at cold reading, right? Again, I don't think it's psychic, but like they're very like good at reading people's body language yeah, she was not good at it at all yes and and the method because. Like I'm thinking about, I wish I was good at American accents, you know, Teresa, is it the Long Island medium? Oh yeah, I think so.

1:05:50 She's got the hair, right, Right, right. I mean, honestly, I kind of love that. Show and I guess she's coming to Utah. Is she Melissa? You're going to get a text from her. OK, let's go to Teresa. Oh God, but it. That would like. Be. Entertaining, yes. She's funny, yeah. And the way she does it, like she'll just walk up to people in a store and be like, sorry, like, I, I have a message or. And I think you know what you're referring to with the cold reading thing. Yeah. And I to me, that feels more authentic, even if it's no less real. But like the idea of volunteering and then doing it seemed odd instead of looking I and leaning into the sense of whatever that is, whether it's just being good at reading body language or you are having contact with the under beasts of the underworld, whatever, you know what, wherever it comes from. But yeah, it was it was an interesting night. I mean, overall, what would you give it out of 10? Solid 3.

1:07:01 I think it would be fair to say our favorite part was Jesse. Definitely. Yeah. No, it was fun. I'm glad we. Went I'm glad you took me to this. It was a different experience. Yeah, different is always good. We got to hang out. Yeah, that was fun in a part of. Town. We don't usually hang out. No, we don't. And I had been missing. You so much after my trip, so it was just lovely to spend time with you as well. Yes, it was just nice to to hang out. And have a bit of a laugh and shout out to the extra tall man. Oh that's right, the extra tall man. We love extra. Tall man, what a sweetheart. Yes. Tell us what he did, OK. Yeah, so there was. Some people sitting in front of us, like kind of small people, small women. Very small.

1:07:44 Yeah. So we could see over their heads. Right. So there's kind of theater seating, but it's very gentle theater seating. So someone slope. Yeah. Tall. Sitting in front of you would be like, an issue. Yeah. And so this very large man, 65, I'm sure. Yes. Yeah. With a hat on. On. Girthy. Yeah. Girthy. Like large man, yes, into the aisle and there's an empty seat like in front of us and he's about to sit there. And I was like, ah, shit. I just kind of said it very quietly. He might have heard me or he might have just like sort of turned around and read the room because there was an empty seat next to both of us. Yes. And he had everyone actually switch around. So he was sitting in front of the empty seat so that everyone could see. I was like, ah, very sweet. What a sweetheart.

1:08:24 And like you say. You said that I probably more I feel like I bellow off to because he he went to sit right in front of you and then he went to sit the one next to that, which would have obscured both our views. Yes, and I I think I said, oh, we're both fuck Nyers. Yeah, that's right. You did say that, and I do believe he heard that part. He might have, but it was so cute, like he just did it very organically. He didn't make a big thing of it. He wasn't like, you're welcome, ladies. He just sort of was like, hey, just move over and then I'll sit here. And yeah, it's very, very sweet. It was so sweet. And he wore we. Cat. Yeah. And what did it say on it? Like best human or. Yeah, something good human or something like that.

1:09:05 We're like, oh. My God, you are. We're like, yes, yeah. And we're like, Oh my God, there's a nice. Man here look at you with situational awareness and. Consideration for others and maybe here with like your partner. Yeah, Which high five? Yeah, because it was 99.9% female. Indeed, there were a few. A few men had been dragged. There a few brave men that were there. I thought that was very sweet and. Yeah, so shout out to a man with the hat. Yeah. If anybody knows this man, give him a high five. Yeah. Good job, dude. It was really sweet. It was I, I like that part. Yeah. That actually was a a nice part of the evening to me. It was good. Well, thank you for doing woo woo shit with me.

1:09:45 Thank you for taking me to woo woo shit. It was it was good fun. And I I would say I don't believe this is the end of our woo woo journey together. Melissa Rella unfortunately or fortunately. I believe that you're right. We will. We will. Try some more things like give us some suggestions. Yeah, absolutely, if you have suggestions for. Woo woo stuff that works for. You or you think that a skeptic like our Melissa should try Let us know I'm going to just end with like one thing, OK because. Again, this has to do with my son. So he at some point discovered when we were traveling that it is great fun in the hotel room, right, Because they usually have cable, which I don't have at home.

1:10:27 I just have the streaming services to turn on something like ancient astronauts or something extremely weird in Woo woo because it's funny to hear Mama yell at the TV. He's. Like I gotta get her. Work to like 1 is amazing. Like he probably did it since. He was about 9:00. And we we still do it. Like we go to a hotel. He's like, Oh my God, I hope they have ancient astronauts or like Skinwalker Ranch or like any of those like paranormal like shows ghost hunters or whatever because he thinks like my reaction is hilarious. Oh my goodness. OK, now I. Know I want my next evening with you to be a bottle of wine. Get you a little tipsy? Put on one of those shows.

1:11:09 And and just. You know, make recordings of your responses. Yeah, good times. That would be golden. Amazing. I love it. Well, we all have our things. We do. Encourage everybody to do what makes you, makes you feel good. Absolutely do what works get you through a hard. Time, yes, Yeah, within certain reasonable parameters, please. And please don't pay too much for it, yeah. Really quick to close out. Was there a thing that you did or lent into post divorce that really helped you? I wouldn't say like. Any practice or anything, woo woo. I think what really helped me was just leaning into all my friendships. Yeah, yeah, that was the biggest thing. That's a good thing to lean on in these. Periods, yeah, I I trail ran a lot. Oh nice, that helped me.

1:12:05 And hot yogurt a lot. Oh yeah, and often sobbed. My way through. But you know, again, maybe there's something just about, you know, like we have cortisol in our body. It makes our body feel away. Yeah. And obviously moving yes helps those levels like that's. The. Sciency part, yeah, that's true. I actually did. Now that you said that. Remember that I did quite a lot of hiking. I mean I still do, but it was like every day, like a lot daily. Yes, I was, I was hiking with my dog, usually alone and it's it's honestly. Again, the idea bringing up full circle that we have everything we need inside ourselves.

1:12:48 It's really interesting to see the things that you like crave or reject. I think this is like the the the meeting of the woo woo with science moment for me. I love it where you know, like when you. Said when you were. Pregnant, you automatically didn't like alcohol or you know, when I was in a period even of very intense stress a few weeks ago where things were just mental, I was craving my Inferno Pilates. Yeah, that's right. You were like I was addicted. Yes, I was going. More than I have ever gone before or since. And I would like leave class 5 minutes early to run up the road.

1:13:32 And bearing in mind I have been going for 12 hour straight and I had to do my 45 minutes of intense help. But it it somehow made me feel better. Yeah, you needed it. Yeah, for whatever reason. So weird. Yeah. And you know. So again, we we have it all in there in terms of just leaning in. But again, like, you know, maybe don't lean into destructive behaviors. Yeah, yeah. Because that can be an impulse too, right? I do love your point that like, we have what we need inside ourselves and to like, learn to trust yourself. But if what your body is telling you is is, you know, just be drunk all the time, right? Or like take a whole bunch of edibles every single day, right? We can be like, maybe, yeah, maybe that's not something to lean into as much.

1:14:21 Maybe you need to like, channel that into a healthier thing to lean into, perhaps. Again, no judgment. We're all just trying to cope, of course, in this world. So it's not like a moral failing. It's just that like, this isn't going to help long term, you know? Yeah, it's going to create more problems, yes. Might make it a wee bit worse so. Yeah, well. Lean into that self. Trust. Yeah, particularly if you're stepping of a space that encourage the complete opposite. Yeah, marriage or, you know, high demand. Religion or whatever it might be, We're both. We're both. Yeah. We believe in you. The salty hoes believe in. You we do. You can do it. You can get through this. Whatever you're going through and you're, you have a lot of wisdom, yes. In in there wherever there is in your we self. That's right.

1:15:06 And if you're not going through anything particularly? Hard right now. That's great. We love that for you. Still. Like, listen to yourself and lean into the things that work. Yeah, we're all about cultivating. The self trust, yes. Love it for yourself, yes. Don't go around being judging. Yeah, a Dick, Melissa, I believe. It would be best for you to, Yeah, three entry guard readings a week. Oh my God, Can you imagine? You're like, no, no. Not doing that, no. All right, stay salty eyed. There and give us a wee like follow comment in terms of what woo practices you think that the salty hoe should try.

1:15:46 Oh yes please, we would love some feedback on this. One take care and we'll see you next time. See you soon. Bye.